Andrew Cohen Stepping Down

[Balder]

Apparently quite a big change is taking place in the EnlightenNext organization, and Cohen appears to be issuing an apology for past abuses.

See here.

[e]

Hey David, How are you brother? How about them Blackhawks!?! After reading your thoughts my sincerest and deepest hope of hopes is that maybe just maybe at least Lisa may have learned something! hahahaha

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

sounds about right on the money !

cohen , andrew,  is a spiritual predator of the first degree.

some people are best avoided ! he IS  one of them.

and it looks strongly that he remains also such a one for the very foreseeable future

of course there are always miracles possible......

 

Balder said:

This new essay by a former Cohen student has been making the rounds on Facebook. 

[Balder]

As I was driving my son somewhere this afternoon, he said this to me, and for some reason it made me think of this thread:  "Dad, I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure this is the truth: Every alien race that ever was thought they were going to master the universe. They tried to be the top. Then, boom! Meteor. Gone. Humans are like that, too. We think we're gonna be masters of the universe. We think we're gonna evolve to know EVERYTHING. Then, boom! Meteor. Gone."

[David]

e, I like your list:

1. Ahimsa

2. walk your talk

3. surround yourself with friends who will kick you in the ass when you fail at 2

Maybe you have a future as a guru. Or would you prefer rinpoche? Roshi?

The Blackhawks were impressive and exciting. Kane was great, and they worked well together. At first I thought the Bruins might be the stronger team, though. But some of their superstars look like they have gotten a bit over the hill. I didn't like the head hit on Toews. I have heard they are thinking about taking fighting and such hits out of the game, and I think they should. I usually prefer the international game these days because there's a bit more finesse and hockey, but I still love the Hawks.

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

hi david

do i want to talk about my time with poonja, you asked.

not the details now but maybe one or 2 things might be helpfull even though they re glaring

obvious , still often overloooked. poonja was a child of ancient india, he was in his 80´s when i met him

and he was the embodied representative of the fruit of this india or one of them anyhow just like ram surat kumar another guru i met

and india´s spirituality runs on cyclic time , there is no armageddon , no omega point

even if there is it is of little value since the dream of vishnu or whoever starts immediatly again.....so there is no end point of evolution of perfection were all resolves into an eternal paradise /hell situation. THAT idea is

äh, semitic.

so we can observe the interesting situation of how our jewish boy from new york ,andrew,gets wakked by such a charged

realizer (lots of shakti9 ) of a specific high level culture

and how then his entire tribal history distorts the message totally, something unthinkable before , because

these 2 would have never met otherwise .this is the global new situation. any indian would have instinctivly

perfectly understood what poonja was teaching BUT not andrew. he translated all into his jewish/christian

deep structure and out came this garbled EE : the perfect torture club

this same story holds true for anybody else but it always depends of course how far a person is developed#

and how much he is embedded in his host culture. so the other poonja gurus did each their own translation

and since i do not know them well enough ....etc.

andrew though did this jewish messiah job so glaringly he is his own evidence.

so there is an awfull lot to learn from andrew ......about global spirituality and its ..pitfalls..

anyway poonja taught to go beyound the pairs including  liberation and bondage, ego and self

so already from this you can see how andrew misunderstood the entire sequence.

progressing in a dream , what sense makes that ? what reality do you think you find? there ? : ))

thats why loud and hearty laughter was poonja´s greatest tool and teaching

[Layman Pascal]

theurj said:

The following is about what I cautioned, that his turn might be a ploy:

It is of course far too easy to ignore sociopathic traits. Almost as easy as it is to "detect" these traits in people who are not functioning or evaluating the way we are (or like to feel that we are). But ploys have a more interesting significance too... for we are not little children who believe naively that hypocrisy is opposed to truth or that fiction is an alternative to reality.

On the one hand, even the most self-serving ploy must be approached with the idea "Is this self-serving ploy better than not having this self-serving ploy?"The distinction to be made -- at each level of context, of course --is between the better and worse directions... not between something so crass as real and unreal.

Yet it is more entangled still -- since most (if not all) truths may begin in bullshit. For how many millennia did the apes pretend to speak, using clumsy signs to help serve the basest and juiciest animal instincts? Yet this was the period in which language arose and truth slowly emerged. This is especially of interest in a kind of "top down" personality like Andrew's in which grand philosophical notions appear and must descend into personal truth... rather than, as in the case of many others, a strong trend to move in the other direction. Children who do not accept the need to ethical pretend for the sake of pleasing Others often experience a gap or obstacle in their ethical development. Artifice is superficial... but superficiality is the only place from which depth can appear...

[Edward theurj Berge]

As I said, I don't know that Cohen is a sociopath but several of those close to him describe him that way, the recent example linked above being just one of a multitude. I suggest only that it's a possibility, perhaps even likely. And with sociopaths that don't just fake it till they make it; they fake it knowingly until people believe they make it and continue on their merry way. And they are very convincing at 'sincerely' faking it. They can even be quite 'good' in some behavior, but it's motivation is typically manipulative.* It's a severe dysfunction so not as neat and tidy as saying we all have our faults countered by our good sides. We are all not that sick and it's not a legitimate comparison.

* I've known a few personally over a long time, and was fooled for a long time, giving second, third, fourth or more chances.

I'm reminded of this song and only hope I:

[Layman Pascal]

Nice tune.

Of "sociopaths": I've studied the literature, known some, suspected some & been suspected of being & known those who suspected themselves but clearly were not. Those with dark zones in their developmental signature are fascinating, occur in degrees, are hard to grok and easy to project onto others who are merely less or differently developed in their socio-ethical approaches.

Among the important issues they pose is the distinction between moral and ethical development -- or shall we say the divergent ethical forms which pertain to intelligence in various quadrants.

The necessary and unnecessary similarities between various ideas of Buddhist perfection, Uber-men & sociopaths, underdevelops, etc. all arise -- as do all the fears and uncertainties of reasonably ethical and healthy people who are reluctant do explore their natural capacities in deceptive play and intentional "solar plexus" effects.

Whether one can, or cannot, or can only minimally process the social response patterns of others (which may be valid or invalid in many ways) may be the basis for a more multivalent assessment -- but our popular "forensic psychology" is just scratching the surface.

May we be empowered beyond all nonsense!

theurj said:

As I said, I don't know that Cohen is a sociopath but several of those close to him describe him that way, the recent example linked above being just one of a multitude. I suggest only that it's a possibility, perhaps even likely. And with sociopaths that don't just fake it till they make it; they fake it knowingly until people believe they make it and continue on their merry way. And they are very convincing at 'sincerely' faking it. They can even be quite 'good' in some behavior, but it's motivation is typically manipulative.* It's a severe dysfunction so not as neat and tidy as saying we all have our faults countered by our good sides. We are all not that sick and it's not a legitimate comparison.

* I've known a few personally over a long time, and was fooled for a long time, giving second, third, fourth or more chances.

I'm reminded of this song and only hope I:

[kelamuni]

He sounds confused. 

[e]

David said: Maybe you have a future as a guru. Or would you prefer rinpoche? Roshi?

A few months ago I was on a panel of world religions for an assembly of 300 4th graders. I was the token Buddhist. After 4 speakers gave their spiel on their particular religion, I really did not want to spend my 15 minutes talking about Buddhism. So I took a different tack.  I started by saying that there are at least 3 broad ways we can characterize all religions. The most superficial is the Iconic. The religious artifacts that represent religion. Of the 5 religions presented here Hinduism has the coolest icons (all the panel members nodded in agreement). The next level is the historic, the teachings and stories about the religious founder. Lastly there is the deepest or most profound level that is generative of the Iconic and Historic. At this level there is no religion. There is no Buddha. There is no God. I said, let me prove it to you. I then led a short guided meditation using the breath and did a short loving kindness meditation. When it was over I asked, who experienced deep peace when we focused and relaxed using the breath? The Rabbi on the panel and many students and teachers raised their hands (one kid afterwards came up and said he suffered from migraines and he had one during the assembly but the breath meditation stopped it). I asked, who here experienced an infinite love for all living beings in their heart when we did the loving kindness meditation? Again the Rabbi and many students and teachers raised their hands. I then asked, was this peace and love you just experienced Christian peace or Hindu peace or Buddhist love or Islamic love? So you see if anyone ever comes up to you and says that their religion is better than yours you know from your own experience that they have not practiced and penetrated to the deepest level of their own religion. It was fun to see a hundred 4th graders, their teachers and the Rabbi smiling as they all understood a very simple truth. So if I don't believe that there is religion or Buddha...of what use would an honorific religious title be? :-)

--

The Blackhawks were impressive and exciting. Kane was great, and they worked well together. At first I thought the Bruins might be the stronger team, though. But some of their superstars look like they have gotten a bit over the hill. I didn't like the head hit on Toews. I have heard they are thinking about taking fighting and such hits out of the game, and I think they should. I usually prefer the international game these days because there's a bit more finesse and hockey, but I still love the Hawks.

What impressed me most about the Hawks was they never got psyched out and quit no matter the score, etc. That is something you just can't coach. The game became faster and more international when they allowed a 2 line pass in 2005. I like that style as well as I am a fast skater so it plays to my strength. If NHL rinks were bigger you would see that style come out more. I am not a fan of crosschecking or hits to the head. They just need to come down on that more and call the penalty. I don't think they should get rid of fighting. If 2 guys want to have at it...I say let them go...then toss them in the box.

[kelamuni]

So what are the possibilites?

1. That "awakening" has nothing to do with morality and so in the case of Cohen, while "awakened," he is simply manifesting this fact.

2. Or the "no true scotsman" approach: "Well, Andrew is not 'really' enlightened (or didn't 'get' the teaching) and therefore he is not a 'true' guru."

Tack two is such a tired riff. It reminds me of the theodicies used to justify religion, theology and God. It's an attempt to deflect fault from problems inherent in the practice of spirituality and spirituality as such. Instead of addressing the roots of problem, which is the despotic nature of guru-centric spirituality, it presents a red herring that shifts the onus of responsibility to some "bad apple."

I'm not surprised by all this; not because Cohen, as an individual, is a socio-path, but because, as humans, any 'guru' can fall for power, feel remorse, etc.

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

tack two is such a tried riff ?

some riffs just never die . you comments show just your own ignorance regarding...hm lets see..

all tantric teachings hindoo or buddhist and human nature and potential in particular

working with the Self archetype will always be on the menu for those who do not only read books

about enlightment

there is absoluty no problem with the guru work

sorting BAD apples has always been part of that work and the current avalanche of bad apples shows

only one thing: the utter stupidity (or better gullability) of western disciples . this is due to the alomost idiotic religions they grew up in for the last 2000 years .

so what is needed here is only a hearty "wise up "  boys and girls and not a complete dismissal

of teachings and methods you obviously haven ´t understood yet.

no problem we are all here to live and learn

maybe a good place would be to learn the difference between sutra and tantra for a start

and hindoo and buddhist

because no these 4 things are not the same no matter what ken says.