Edward theurj Berge
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Edward theurj Berge's Discussions

Defintions of IPS
4 Replies

The issue link is here. There has been some discussion of this at IC…Continue

Started this discussion. Last reply by Edward theurj Berge Feb 10.

The agency of objects
4 Replies

We've discussed this in various threads like object-oriented ontology and Edwards' work on social holons. In that light I came upon an interesting take on the agency of artifacts in light of the…Continue

Started this discussion. Last reply by Edward theurj Berge Feb 5.

Romancing the Ning

Here is the Issue. From the Introduction:The Ning Forum for Integral Post-Metaphysical…Continue

Started Jan 26

The intersection of pattern dynamics and integral postmetaphysical spirituality: What brings us together
2 Replies

Here is the issue. From the Narrative Summary:The editors have asked me (Tim) to put…Continue

Started this discussion. Last reply by DavidM58 Jan 28.

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Edward theurj Berge's Page

Latest Activity

Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion States, stages, the WC lattice and the fold
"However Bergson viewed intuition and analysis as the absolute versus the relative way of knowing. The former is "a method that aims at getting back to and knowing the things themselves, in all their uniqueness and ineffable originality."…"
Feb 14
Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion States, stages, the WC lattice and the fold
"This thread started with Bryant on Bergson, so now I ling this post of Deleuze on Bergson. Of particular note for now:  4.3. Critique of Presentism:1. We tend to confuse being with being-present. 2. The present is precisely what is not, what is…"
Feb 14
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"And then there's Tibetan Buddhist debate practice: "The distinctive form of Tibetan debate (rtsod pa) plays an important part of philosophical investigations in Tibetan intellectual communities. It is central in the Gelug sect, in…"
Feb 14
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"Merleau Ponty on hyper-dialectic:“What we call hyper-dialectic is a thought that, on the contrary, is capable of reaching truth because it envisages without restriction the plurality of the relationships and what has been called ambiguity. The…"
Feb 14
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"I'm struck by how every written or spoken communication is an occasion of the unprecedented. Yes, we use the same words we've always used, maybe a new one on occasion. But each time we speak or write is novel in that we've never done…"
Feb 13
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"And the following from the first page of the ITP thread: Back on the Gaia forum I discussed Fenner's deconstructive contemplation in relation to Derrida's deconstructive (methodless) method. Fenner's method is based on various…"
Feb 13
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"And later in that thread: Recall I compared Wilber's consciousness per se (CPS) with Derrida's khora in this thread. On p. 1 quoting Caputo: "Moreover, while it [khora] cannot be perceived by the senses but only by the mind,…"
Feb 13
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"I'm also reminded of thispost on ILP practice. A relevant clip: The initial stages of the absolute practice is basically about sitting and unwinding. The mid-stages then include relative deconstructive and dissolving practice to get one back…"
Feb 13
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"A relevant clip from Philosophy in the Flesh:"Categorization is thus not a purely intellectual matter, occurring after the fact of experience. Rather the formation and use of categories are the stuff on experience.... We cannot, as some…"
Feb 12
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"And then there's this interesting take:"As a method of oppositional reading, deconstruction argues that a text, and by extension any object of observation including the self, is characterized by disunity rather than unity. The present…"
Feb 12
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"At least a few of the postmetaphysicians in this forum agree with the following critique: "Two main aspects of Derrida's thinking regarding phenomenology remain clear. Firstly, he thinks that the phenomenological emphasis upon the…"
Feb 12
Edward theurj Berge replied to Balder's discussion The Language Vs. Experience Debate
"That discussion is the straw that broke my IC back. To me they are a bunch of dogmatic, religious fundamentalists of the privileged access to direct and superior experience variety. It's almost as bad as trying to reason with a Dumpster, since…"
Feb 11
Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion Knowing and unknowing reality: A beginner's and expert's developmental guide to post-metaphysical thinking
"As to Tom’s paper on uncertainty and emptiness, I appreciate what David Loy said of relevance in this article: "Today the thinker most often compared to Nagarjuna is the French philosopher Jacques Derrida… Derrida is not interested…"
Feb 10
Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion Defintions of IPS
"I also posted this at IC: My last post also reminds me of one of my favorite David Loy quotes. It specifically references meditative states, but also relevant here. “Well, this relates to the way we understand spirituality and meditation. For…"
Feb 10
Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion Defintions of IPS
"In the IC discussion there seems an aversion to postmetaphysical thinking, as it is just another perspective. And perspectives themselves are anathema to the experience of integral-aperspectivalism. So I posted this: I’m curious about the…"
Feb 10
Edward theurj Berge replied to Edward theurj Berge's discussion Knowing and unknowing reality: A beginner's and expert's developmental guide to post-metaphysical thinking
"Tom: Love this juxtaposition of quotes Edward! Commons is good to make the point about the difference between the real and ideal (idea) [which many theorists don’t], but seems to tip his hat as a radical idealist here. I’m not sure…"
Feb 8

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Comment Wall (11 comments)

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At 3:01pm on December 11, 2017, Trish Nowland said…

Hi there,

Following Neelesh's comment - if there's still an interest in collating contributions, would it be possible to find out a little more detail about how we can contribute perspectives?

Many thanks for being in touch,

Trish

At 7:53am on November 18, 2017, Neelesh Marik said…

Can you share some details please on the initiative and the work involved? Thanks

At 6:27pm on September 27, 2010, Balder said…
LOL, hmm, I like the sound of that. I don't think so. Just was checking out what they're up to. Seems like it's pretty basic, not really touching much of what we explore here (that I can tell from the discussion).
At 6:21pm on September 27, 2010, Balder said…
There's an interfaith ministry program in New York called One Spirit that has recently opened a program to train people to be "integral spiritual mentors and ministers," led by Lynne Feldman and Joanne Ruben. There was a webinar today on this, which is just winding up.
At 2:08pm on March 26, 2010, shaman sun said…
Would be happy to discuss Gebser, thank you for the link! I'll post something up shortly.
At 2:26pm on March 24, 2010, Lol said…
no more so than anyone having an attachment to 'the end of enlightenment', or to the theory of hierarchical complexity ; ) ...no, i guess i'm trying to see if the state of dzogchen can be regarded differently, as something other than a metaphysical, transcendental 'given' -- i can't see any 'absolute giveness' inherent in the idea of infinite potentiality manifesting out of openess.
At 1:07pm on March 24, 2010, Lol said…
thanks for the link to the transpersonal psychology thread, and it's good to be talking about this with you now, because i wasn't able to raise this at the time. your posts then quoting Capriles were in reference to the pre-trans fallacy, and on having a look at the time at Beyond Mind 2, i came across the part i quoted in my previous message, which at the time made me think of your premise that the so called primordial or non-dual state (rigpa) was nothing more than, as you concisely put it, the state of pre-reflexive awareness integrated with the later ego. attempting to put jargon aside as much as possible, the dzogchen teaching distinguishes between the 'base-of-all' consciousness (kun.zhi nam.shes, a la yogachara, which doesn't automatically imply being present to/in rigpa -- i.e. one can rest in a half-asleep state of a base level of awareness without being in "instant presence") and the 'state of dzogchen', which is the inseparability of kun.zhi (here a different kind/meaning of 'kun.zhi') and rigpa. i'm hoping we don't end up again simply agreeing to differ...i'm wondering rather if you might consider that the kind of half-asleep awareness we can have when meditating, which can be running on automatic, is itself not apart from the ego - in fact the self/ego might be distractedly musing on something within this drowsy state - but from the point of view of the dzogchen teaching it is not the "instant presence" of (or being "instantly present in") the so called non-dual state. kind regards, best wishes.
At 2:53pm on March 23, 2010, Lol said…
hi theurj...can't find the relevant threads/posts now, but vis a vis your proposition that the so called natural/non-dual state is nothing more than the baseline, zero level of hierarchical complexity (my words not yours, as i can't quote you directly, but i'm hoping you'll accept them as adequately capturing your intended meaning), what do you think of the notion that this baseline/zero level might be better represented by "...the state known as base-of-all or kunzhi (kun gzhi) … as manifest when one cozily remains in the experience of the inner luminosity of dang (gdangs) energy known as tingsel (gting gsal)24 without reGnizing this luminosity (a reGnition that would turn it into an instance of the dharmakaya)" (Capriles: Beyond Mind 2 p.5), rather than the so called non-dual state of "instant presence" itself?
At 3:23pm on March 20, 2010, Joseph said…
Hi Edward

I just went back into an email you sent me from 2 years ago and requested to join the KW meetup group. So I haven't been yet but hope to check it out soon.

joseph
At 4:11pm on March 18, 2010, Mary W. said…
Ningbat: LOL!
 
 
 
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