Noah

[andrew]

Aronofsky has a new pic out. I know that some folks in this community are a fan of his work so up this post goes. I am going to use this post, if nobody objects too strongly, to write all i know about that story. It's something i spent a lot of time investigating and i've never really talked about it. First, let me say for those of you who don't know me that i don't identify myself as a Christian and haven't for over 30 years. I was raised secularly and couldn't really tell you what a church was when i was sixteen, let alone wonder about god. I think though, as far as i can remember, that i've always had this strange feeling that something was very much wrong on this planet, and that , that feeling goes right back to childhood. Now, to be fair, there was a brief period of time in my early 20's when i did identify with evangelical Christianity, but a year or so after sensing the corruption within that institution, i became what i now call an independent. I am still this way today; spiritually and politically.

Please be aware that very little that i post here will be from my imagination directly, most everything will come from the history of human literature on this mythology. Now i'm quite sure i hear Julian's voice in the noosphere saying, ' Andrew, this is just silly," well, perhaps, but this has been a part of my path, Aronofsky choose this subject matter, and without seeing the film, i can reasonable guess that it will not reflect what is said in these books. 

It should be noted, that at the time Jesus lived, The Book of Enoch was  part of the religious canon. Most people within that community believed strongly in those stories as far as my study of history shows, and that Jesus quoted from these stories a number of times, mentioning that his return would be surrounded by events that were just like what happened in those days. I'll certainly return to this later. 

Now, i am not really interested in challenging histories orthodoxy on humanities past .That is not what this is about, but what i do think is somewhat possible though, is the idea that prior to the development of the written word, history gets a little bit murkier. By saying this, i am not suggesting there was a global flood, i am just suggesting that things are a little more unsure the farther back one goes from the written word. Obviously, this premise would be throughly attacked by historic fundamentalists; i don't care!

Okay, i am going to stop here for now, so The Book of Enoch and the story of god and angels! lol The first place to start on these myths………….

[andrew]

The Great Spirit Traditions should not be completely reduced to childishness; but rather, healthy interpretations of spirits possible existence. 

http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-culture/animism.htm

And some tribes were ecologically aware; some did treat their  women as equals; some didn't alienate their two-spirited members; some were peaceful and loving; so it was not all pre-rational nonsense but more a dichotomy of what Jesus termed wheat and tares. Choices humans make! Yes, with our partial and limited freewill; a freewill that God honours in the God/Jesus/Matrix. 

Indeed: http://www.labyrinthina.com/ltaylorhansen.htm

[andrew]

I wanted to touch on the notion of woo-woo briefly. The way i term the word is mostly specific to theories that posit spirit within the scientific paradigm. These theories are more often than not sold as dogma and fact when in fact they are no such thing. Someones theory could potentially be verified by the scientific method over time, but i think it likely that that particular theory probably wouldn't be framed within speculative dogma in the first place. Any new advances in scientific knowledge would probably come from within the scientific  community anyway, and again; initially, that new groundbreaking idea wouldn't be framed within pop-theory packaging ( at least that would be my best guess).

I find the New age movement the most fertile soil for this kind of dogmatic speculative woo-woo. Now sure, for those hostile to the great wisdom traditions of religion one would also call all religion woo-woo, too! I get that, but for those who find the idea of a conveyor belt useful it would be best to not see ALL religion as woo-woo. Perhaps childish to some degree, yes; but is archetype , symbol, myth, fable, really all that adolescent ? These energies have moved humanity deeply and continue to do so through millennia . Moreover, we all have to start from square one still so evolution isn't going to change the spectrum of human belief anytime soon. It's in this regard that I think the integral community could be a little more open and pragmatic when it comes to viewing the realities of humans through developmental spectrums. An Integral theory that opens itself to an Integral faith offers another path for individuals in a world of frightenly limited choice. A belief in some kind of source is not inherently irrational although i do get that An Integral faith would be wedged somewhere into the 'god of the gaps'. Perhaps this is something that Oleg is suggesting  , also.

But is God really woo-woo? Really? Well, maybe Andrew Cohen and Adi Da are!

[Layman Pascal]

Andrew,

You might enjoy my old "harangue" on the relationship between Flightiness & Flakiness.  It is a cousin to "woo woo".  

Wilber and others have often remarked that it is a dangerous thing for spirituality to base itself on its understanding of popular science... since science has a tendency to change its worldview over time.  But when you suggest that new knowledge will come from within the scientific community you should also recall that many of the greatest figures in Science have also been alchemists, theologians, spiritualists, etc.  There is no strong boundary here.  

Science is an approach, a set of skills, which can be used by anyone with any type of social sensibility.  That is one of the reasons that it is not so important to "teach evolution" and "keep dogma out of schools".  The content of what children are taught is not where their scientific understanding comes from.  Most scientific breakthroughs were made by people who we would today call mythic flakes in many respects.  The real issue is not what children "believe" but whether they are practicing investigative skills which can function independently of their beliefs, moods, and even their woo-woo sensibilities.

You ask "Is archetype , symbol, myth, fable, really all that adolescent ?"

The answer, of course, is that these words are used interchangeably by primitive-childish minds and advanced transpersonal minds.  Wherever fables and myths are taken as factual, wherever they are accepted as specific stories about specific characters with famous names, then they are not even adolescent.  They are infantile.  But wherever they become generic concepts, mirrors for reflecting the heart back to itself, organs in the living body of a community, then they are nourishing and developmental.

Religion is the coherence and depth of a cultural field.  It depends, for its piety and usefulness, upon people NOT imagining that they are divided from other groups on the subject of religion.  God is the "signifier" of the voluntary unity of all genres and types of people in our greater cultural context.  He is the surplus meaningfulness of Spirit in its social form.  Yet we honor Him just as well when we say "There is No God."  There IS that No God.  It is the same God.  

The primal commandment to "have no other gods before Me" is only active when we really understand that there are no other gods, nobody has another opinion on the subject, there are no groups in our culture who do not align with the Deity.  As soon as it becomes a matter of conscious choice to accept or not... then we are pagan again (in the bad way... not in the good sexy, drinking & tree-loving way!)

I'm not totally sure what this means:

But is God really woo-woo? Really? Well, maybe Andrew Cohen and Adi Da are!

But you may enjoy Adi Da's book on the bodily and nondual worship of God -- "Breath and Name".  

[andrew]

These are my Petunias in an aquarium. They will grow like  crazy for 7 months in this planter. Deep soil, the right amount of water and sun. Some of my tomatoes. O. H. = old hippies. This pic says it all: the conversion of the boomers mini-bus into a Ka$h dispensing machine. One of my old nephilim bosses told me that the scum always rises to the top of the pond; and I replied, " yes, but occasionally we get a magnificent lotus flower out of it". The forest in winter. 

Here is a link on the climate change front: 

http://nofrakkingconsensus.com

Did I mention that L.P. is a knob! lol

Anyway, those last two examples were my attempt at poking fun at Kenny! I couldn't get past the sentences that had Da's trademark name every 30 seconds in the books I've read of his. Let's just say that I don't find his work compelling at all; and Cohen: haha!

[Edward theurj Berge]

Is he dead or just meditating?

[andrew]

He lives! lol

Or maybe it's about the Ka$h! Na…….

[andrew]

Also, it may be that the God Ka$h and it's Messiah the corporation needed its own book of revelation: the IPCC! John Kerry is John of Patmos.

[andrew]

We own 33% of all your asses!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/05/27/316317191/worlds-rich...

[Edward theurj Berge]

I noted that SyFy channel is starting a new series tonight called Dominion. Here's the blurb:

"Alex Lannon, destined to lead humanity and end the war against the angels, must balance his love for Claire Riesen with his new responsibility while trusting Michael to help him navigate the new world."

SyFy has had some pretty bad original movies but I've enjoyed both of its original series, Continuum and Defiance. The latter is starting a new season tonight which I'm going to watch. I'll probably then watch the new series debut since I'm already there.

[andrew]

Yeah, in passing, I noted the commercial the other day and thought it might be an anti-christ movie. Looks good though!

Although, for the record: the theology laid out in this thread made it clear that there is no war in heaven although it did talk about times when small groups of angels entered into illicit relations with humanity. I also suggested that that phenomenon changed and evolved over time, thereby suggesting that humanity couldn't know what that scenario might look like today if it were occurring. I also suggested in this thread that from the time of Constantine onward that the love of God has been intentionally misrepresented on earth, that God is allowing this because of limited human free will , but all this behaviour falls under the parameters of the left hand protocols. 

Here is another example of those protocols: the ancient Shiite /Sunni split  in Islam is at its root  a schism based on the choice of humans to be bigots. It is their choice to be bigots but be sure that there is no reward for that kind of behaviour from the right hand of God. They are delusional in their bigotry as are Christians white supremacists who adhere to the philosophy of guns for JeeZous! 

To be sure , the theology outlined in this thread is unique to me, but at least I think originally and am not a Kenny parrot! Just call me Noah! LMAO………..

[Edward theurj Berge]

Here's the wiki. It's not getting good reviews so far.

[andrew]

Nothing is beating Game of Thrones right now!