Evolving Dharma

[Balder]

 

I'm reading Jay Michaelson's Evolving Dharma right now.  The language is casual, playfully irreverent, and engaging, and he touches on a number of the topics we have explored here over the years -- such as emergent P2P and open source culture (and its impact on traditional spiritual cultures and modes of instruction), secular Buddhism and Stephen Batchelor's work, Wallis' speculative non-Buddhism, the Buddhist Geeks, the intersection of Buddhism with science and psychotherapy, David Loy's engaged Buddhism, Hokai Sobol's integral Buddhism (remember Hokai from Zaadz?), etc.

Here's an article by Michaelson, adapted from the book:

You Must Change Your Life: Capitalism and the Evolving Dharma

[Edward theurj Berge]

And what about 'right view,' as discussed here? Right view is one of the Buddhist eightfold paths. So this path is defunct in an evolving dharma?

[Balder]

Yeah, exactly - I don't think he can bypass that.

This interview is interesting -- not with Michaelson, but with another scholar studying the emergence and evolution of "American Buddhism."

Pursuing an American Buddhism

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

hey since you guys discuss buddhism again

here is my little contribution : its a hot book tip ,its not new , maybe you know it already ,still ,since its  forever wonderfull, in this case its a reminder :

originally called "the jewel ship" but in this translation given the title

"you are the eyes of the world" its  by longchenpa , a commentary to the kunbyed rgyal po tantra

translated by kennard lipman and with a foreword  by chögyal namkai norbu rinpoche.

u can get this gem here :http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Eyes-World-Longchenpa/dp/155939367X/r...

there is a kindle edition

enjoy

[Balder]

Max, yes, I've read this book.  It is quite unusual, deep, and poetically very beautiful.  It also seems very un-Buddhist in flavor, reading more like a revealed scripture in a theistic tradition...

It is interesting to me that the translator, Kennard Lipman, has since left Dzogchen and returned to his Jewish roots...

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

h balder , yeah i thought you might have read that one , : ))

 yeah , maybe kennard seems to have done that, gone back to his fathers beliefs,

but i say seems ....because it depends

HOW you interpret  ..dzog chen.

as you noticed DC is a little different to ..straight buddhism . as is explained by CNNR and

longchenpa,

its the name for everybody´s natural state and therefore totally free of any ....limitations . therefore

its what everybody sort of intuits BUT in most cases (religions) this "intuition" or revelation might not be

so very clear .  the dzog chen teachings, which are the teachings long chenpa  is commenting on in that

book , are just particular clear and complete...

in any case : once a dzog chen pa ...always a dzog chen pa.....since it is knowledge and not a belief and

once one understood and has seen ,one cannot erase what one knows , can one ?

outer form is exactly not what shows

the essence , so......seems mr. lipman has decided to bring some dzog chen flavour ,himself, into the

kaballah,great

. i also know of a catholic priest who does that ,quite a few gelugs and shakyas etc, many therapists etc . dzog chen as you know exists also in non buddhist bön and some say its the root of daoism  and probably shivaism  and even one sufi sect might carry some of this knowledge......

the purest lineage thread though exists nowadays in the tibetan nymapa .....as far as i am aware of

anyhows

mm

[13w6cecaz7s7h]

hi balder

in any case his translation of dzog chen upadesha texts in 2010

seems to prove my point. to me he sounds still like a very active dzog chen pa in his commentaries there.:))

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Teachings-Padmasambhava-Essential-Inst...

mm

[Rev. O.M. Bastet]

It never ceases to amaze me that when people, even amazing people like Jay, start talking about economic matters, they somehow cease to be able to differentiate essentials and non-essentials. None of those characteristics is "essential" to what a capitalistic system is, AND we do not even have such a system; it doesn't exist anywhere on earth at this time! (Except maybe Hong Kong or is it Singapore.) Sigh.

There are logically 4 possible relationships between an economic system and government. The essence of each system, is that relationship:

Economic system is owned by government: Communism

Economic system is partly owned and largely regulated and partly free: Socialism

Economic system is mostly regulated and free to some extent: Fascism

Economic system is regulated only to punish the use of force and fraud, iow only to punish harm, otherwise free: Capitalism

That's it. The rest is non-essentials, and most of what is not liked about our current system, which is closer to Socialism now than to any other, would pertain in ANY system!!

OK, I will close my rant. Usually I keep quiet, because ridiculous ignorance about economic matters is rampant even among "Integrally-interested" people......a little education goes a long way. Reading newspapers is not education.

theurj said:

The article basically said that the values inculcated by meditation practice are incompatible with the corporate lifestyle of greed, excess, corruption etc. And that just meditating and working in that sort of environment doesn't change anything; one must change their life. And when one does so they often leave such corporate environments.

But what about changing the values of the corporation? And/or on a much wider scale, the nature of the capitalist system? Perhaps by enacting democratic business models? And involvement with progressive political agendas? It seems these options are not explored. And that the best we can do is change our personal lives. Is that different in the book?

[hologram holomovement]

om bastet - speaking of ridiculous ignorance, your definition of the economic system of fascism is appalling.  here's my correction to your incorrectness:  fascism is where a cabal of corporate entities and wealthy elites regulate themselves by owning the government, which is the bastardized form of neoliberal capitalism we now have on a global scale.

that is the economic form of fascism as it exists today.

[Edward theurj Berge]

I'm with HH on this one. There is ridiculous ignorance here, but it's coming from the projector of the charge.

[Edward theurj Berge]

I refer interested readers to this post and following from the "integral global capitalism" thread. Also the "integral anti-capitalism" threads (part one).

[e]

e said, "what viable alternative to capitalism en masse does the world have right here right now?  is anyone else... willing to employ [workers] for more or would they be completely jobless and more broke without that job?"

HH Said: if it doesnt exist already then we're stuck with what we have, right, e?

the point is to create those alternatives by redirecting massive organizational resources, both state and private, that otherwise now go into private profit making for the few.  transitional alternatives COULD* work within the existing organizational framework of capitalism, with things like profit sharing and democratic workplace conditions for workers to create the initial conditions of cooperative self-sufficiency toward the long term institutional reorganization that needs to take place.

* e's bolding

---

Most everything you say sounds great on paper...unfortunately people cannot eat, be clothed or live on that paper. The main issue I have is that economies are "grown" like a complex ecosystem and not engineered like a cities sewer system. Your well intentioned tinkering cannot have foresight on that which is so large and too complex to "control". Please forgive my skepticism and want to keep and use my hard earned money as I see fit.

[e]

Balder said: I'm also suspicious of the claim to bare, interpretation-free experience ...

e said: In Loy's book on Non-duality he explicates 3 ways non-duality has classically been approached: perception, action and thought (there are others). He feels perception shorn of thoughts dualistic overlay can yield an insight into non-duality. He finds support for this in Buddhism, Advaita and Taoism. I agree...it's simply a doorway...a ungated gate.