Participatory Spirituality for the 21st Century
Aronofsky has a new pic out. I know that some folks in this community are a fan of his work so up this post goes. I am going to use this post, if nobody objects too strongly, to write all i know about that story. It's something i spent a lot of time investigating and i've never really talked about it. First, let me say for those of you who don't know me that i don't identify myself as a Christian and haven't for over 30 years. I was raised secularly and couldn't really tell you what a church was when i was sixteen, let alone wonder about god. I think though, as far as i can remember, that i've always had this strange feeling that something was very much wrong on this planet, and that , that feeling goes right back to childhood. Now, to be fair, there was a brief period of time in my early 20's when i did identify with evangelical Christianity, but a year or so after sensing the corruption within that institution, i became what i now call an independent. I am still this way today; spiritually and politically.
Please be aware that very little that i post here will be from my imagination directly, most everything will come from the history of human literature on this mythology. Now i'm quite sure i hear Julian's voice in the noosphere saying, ' Andrew, this is just silly," well, perhaps, but this has been a part of my path, Aronofsky choose this subject matter, and without seeing the film, i can reasonable guess that it will not reflect what is said in these books.
It should be noted, that at the time Jesus lived, The Book of Enoch was part of the religious canon. Most people within that community believed strongly in those stories as far as my study of history shows, and that Jesus quoted from these stories a number of times, mentioning that his return would be surrounded by events that were just like what happened in those days. I'll certainly return to this later.
Now, i am not really interested in challenging histories orthodoxy on humanities past .That is not what this is about, but what i do think is somewhat possible though, is the idea that prior to the development of the written word, history gets a little bit murkier. By saying this, i am not suggesting there was a global flood, i am just suggesting that things are a little more unsure the farther back one goes from the written word. Obviously, this premise would be throughly attacked by historic fundamentalists; i don't care!
Okay, i am going to stop here for now, so The Book of Enoch and the story of god and angels! lol The first place to start on these myths………….
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Tone (and Nietzsche's Jukebox is my recent combination of an online playlist, introduction to the Dionysian "tone" in philosophy and series of micro-essays examining each song on the playlist) is critical.
It does not replace etiquette as a suitable parameter because they are not rivals. One is more experiential and mood-based while the other is more protocol/code oriented. They cannot thrive without each other.But I have argued that Metatheory and other cognitive aspects of Integrative Reality must be understood as rising out of a particular ethos, tone and tempo.
And this is what Nietzsche primarily argued... that the post-nihilistic society is a side-effect of the establishment of an entangled set of Dionysian styles. Style is related to both etiquette and tone and several other things also. But we must pay special attention to the fertility, telos and empowerment which we glimpse through cultural forms. Music provides an excellent example... as long as we don't get too caught up in the lyrics!
I am going to post a series of links here in the case that any of the old gaia type people want to explore this strange and bizarre situation. I surfed upon this first link and have experienced similar things. I found this post to be non-manipulative and honest:
http://www.humanitywinsilluminatilose.com/?page_id=635
I am starting to find individual Christian like people who are seeing the church for what it is. This guy has intuited, as I, the truth of the left hand path.
http://rejoicinglifeministries.com/Hand%20of%20God.htm
This guy has intuited the reckoning, as I have:
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/reckoning.html
The point of these last two links is that there are a few people who are starting to get it even if this is level adjustment phenomenon.
Links to The Nephilim:
http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/genius.php
This one is probably the closest anyone would get to credible on this issue.
This guy was compelled enough to go to Mt Hebron for himself:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/scientific-study-religion/21778-gard...
The point being, there is so much happening in real peoples lives -including myself- to dismiss this field of inquiry as nonsense. There is a women named Sherry Shriner who has a link on this theme and i didn't post the link as that is exactly what one should not do with this information. The internet is the new printing press!
But let us UNDERSTAND! The good that God uses COMES OUT FROM GOD. Also, the evil that God uses is CREATED by God only for the purpose that He has for it. The Bible states that God IS GOOD, IS LIFE, IS LIGHT, etc. Nowhere does the Bible say that God IS EVIL, only that He CREATES evil. There is a vast difference. Once having been used of God, He then brings it to naught, or as is often said in the bible, “It came to pass!”
I think we should probably be asking ourselves what the usefulness/relevance is of these kinds of links. This is not a put down but an invitation to further inquiry. Given that there is obviously something interesting about these topics, and that many people have things to say about them, and that some of those people are sympathetically "sane-ish" and need to be morally embraced as struggling with or pondering some real phenomena that they run into in life... so what?
As Andrew says above:
"The point of these last two links is that there are a few people who are starting to get it even if this is level adjustment phenomenon."
But what is the "point" of that point?
Is there a real relevance to either post-metaphysical spirituality, the dionysian cultural revolution, the emergence of meta-theory or the frontiers of integrative philosophy? And maybe there is -- but unless we try to "say" that relevance we risk succumbing the perennial trap of our electronically dominated lifestyles: the simple facticity of links.
From a general integrative point of view it seems that we need to do a lot more than just find, consider and make not of the exciting possibilities. We need to carefully remain open and carefully remain closed while laying out a number of potentially viable explanations for the data and favoring the explanations which minimize the presence of metaphysical entities.
Just focusing on myself and Aliens for a second:
Personally, I have had numerous 'UFO experiences' since childhood and gone through many phases of theorizing on this subject. I was most impressed as a boy to read Jacques Vallee (French scientist in charge of that country's UFO research program) explaining that this real phenomenon might be inter-dimensional but could not possibly be inter-planetary. Later Whitley Streiber's moved in the odd direction of admitting that darkness and terror could "invoke" close encounters. Dr. Greer is trying to provoke such encounters with particular sound waves and psychic states. Personally I am inclined toward the notion that the pranic envelope of the biopshere exhibits a variable degree of intelligence and, in cluster-effects, can produce social and neuro-electric interactions with human beings. Although "aliens" may claim to be from Venus, the Pleaides or the center the galaxy we cannot and should not take "their" word for anything... especially when virtually all UFO events have occurred between the surface of the earth and upper limit of the atmosphere. The nice thing about such a model is that validates phenomena without taking the asserted content seriously and tries to reduce the number of variables involved. That is a "general orientation" of great use to us...
What I am suggesting is that we ought not to very interested in particular possibilities of an extraordinary nature no matter how much they "show up" in the work of fringe academic researchers or the lives of individual sensitives. We should be predominantly interested in WHAT ELSE these things could be. We should not rest until we have a couple of alternative explanations which convince us equally well and provoke us to look for hybrid solutions which enfold and criticize all the different outrageous and/or compelling.
These are the sort of places where, I think, we should expect our investigation of these topics to begin...
Hey LP, just to be clear, you are describing things you have experienced here?
Just focusing on myself and Aliens for a second:
Personally, I have had numerous 'UFO experiences' since childhood and gone through many phases of theorizing on this subject. I was most impressed as a boy to read Jacques Vallee (French scientist in charge of that country's UFO research program) explaining that this real phenomenon might be inter-dimensional but could not possibly be inter-planetary. Later Whitley Streiber's moved in the odd direction of admitting that darkness and terror could "invoke" close encounters. Dr. Greer is trying to provoke such encounters with particular sound waves and psychic states. Personally I am inclined toward the notion that the pranic envelope of the biopshere exhibits a variable degree of intelligence and, in cluster-effects, can produce social and neuro-electric interactions with human beings. Although "aliens" may claim to be from Venus, the Pleaides or the center the galaxy we cannot and should not take "their" word for anything... especially when virtually all UFO events have occurred between the surface of the earth and upper limit of the atmosphere. The nice thing about such a model is that validates phenomena without taking the asserted content seriously and tries to reduce the number of variables involved. That is a "general orientation" of great use to us...
You may not be aware that I asked and was given permission to explore these themes on this thread. I have endeavoured not to mention theistic themes on other threads on this site out of respect for the parameters here. You will all be relieved to know that I am pretty well done on this topic on this thread. It's here for posterity and i think Bruce and Edward for allowing me the latitude to express these views. Cheers brothers! If anyone is interested in further explorations of these topics then I will engage , but other than that…..
If that is your personal experience LP then in the words of Spock: fascinating!
I myself, make no definitive claims about this phenomenon.
Yeah, I've had all kinds of experiences of a "manifest" and "semi-manifest" nature which prompted my study and pondering of these topics. I am happy to discuss them, or parts of them, but I am also skeptical of the attitude (in myself and other people) which considers them to be very interesting or out-of-the-ordinary. I think good conversations on these topics must bring them back into the realm of the very ordinary without diminishing the range of possible interpretations or neutralizing the specifically "magical" quality that often accompanies the phenomenology of these encounters.
andrew said:
Hey LP, just to be clear, you are describing things you have experienced here?
Just focusing on myself and Aliens for a second:
Personally, I have had numerous 'UFO experiences' since childhood and gone through many phases of theorizing on this subject. I was most impressed as a boy to read Jacques Vallee (French scientist in charge of that country's UFO research program) explaining that this real phenomenon might be inter-dimensional but could not possibly be inter-planetary. Later Whitley Streiber's moved in the odd direction of admitting that darkness and terror could "invoke" close encounters. Dr. Greer is trying to provoke such encounters with particular sound waves and psychic states. Personally I am inclined toward the notion that the pranic envelope of the biopshere exhibits a variable degree of intelligence and, in cluster-effects, can produce social and neuro-electric interactions with human beings. Although "aliens" may claim to be from Venus, the Pleaides or the center the galaxy we cannot and should not take "their" word for anything... especially when virtually all UFO events have occurred between the surface of the earth and upper limit of the atmosphere. The nice thing about such a model is that validates phenomena without taking the asserted content seriously and tries to reduce the number of variables involved. That is a "general orientation" of great use to us...
You may not be aware that I asked and was given permission to explore these themes on this thread. I have endeavoured not to mention theistic themes on other threads on this site out of respect for the parameters here. You will all be relieved to know that I am pretty well done on this topic on this thread. It's here for posterity and i think Bruce and Edward for allowing me the latitude to express these views. Cheers brothers! If anyone is interested in further explorations of these topics then I will engage , but other than that…..
If that is your personal experience LP then in the words of Spock: fascinating!
I myself, make no definitive claims about this phenomenon.
I've had a number of experiences, too -- most recently on a week-long "expedition" with Dr. Greer. I think it's fair to consider such experiences relatively out-of-the-ordinary, since they are outside the experience of many people, but I'm with you on not wanting to fetishize or sensationalize them...and agree that we need to be open to a range of interpretations, some of which may differ quite a bit from conventional wisdom (conventional "skeptical"- and "believer"-wisdom alike).
I don't talk about this much, i saw a sliver of opportunity to get this out of my system and there you have it. Of course, I would be very interested in what you and Balder have to say on this matter if either of you feel compelled to do so-rif away.
I'm quite comfortable in atheist shoes but if there is a god the bolded post above is the one that I've experienced. You will have to take my word that posting this thread was no attempt to proselytize here.
You guys should know though that I don't assess things in isolation; I tend to assess in very broad strokes. I don't necessarily separate this stuff from the neoliberal takeover of the planet; racism; bigotry; greed; environmental degradation; arrogance; ignorance, and on and on. To me it's all connected.
I don't think there's any fear that you are prosleytizing. You seem quite an amenable chap. And "god experience" and "god thinking" are as common here as "ufo experience" and "meditative states" and "naturalistic ecstasies" etc.
However, while "broad strokes" and "not assessing things in isolation" is a good place to get started on an inquiry there is a certain threshold beyond which we do not get very without beginning to more carefully tease apart the threads.
The broad strokes are generally already known and tolerated by informed and open-minded people. So where do we go from there? How do we challenge ourselves to get deeper? Where are the subtler strokes emerging?
This also belongs here:
http://samsmitharchives.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/where-the-hell-did...
1700 years of apostasy ( give or take a few progressive decades here and there) really shouldn't make Sam all that surprised ! 7th Day Agnostic! LMAO
You and Balder are being pretty stingy on your anecdotes here; or theories on these happenings! cough cough
Not that i dismiss Vallee, Jung or Campbell. Anything to add to these guys?
The question is, who hasn't had such experiences? The answer is no one. Recall I was a ceremonial magickian and not only communed with god/desses and angels but invoked them into me. But I agree with the Lingam that we interpret such experience through our cognitive filters. I'm now inclined to see it more along these lines.
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