Let's also hear it for metaphysical and premetaphysical/physical and indeterminate natter.

[Ambo Suno]

Despite uber-adequate and copious explication here on IPMS of the what is "post-metaphysical", and the why of its nomenclature and designation, I've never done complete homework to arrive at clear mental resolution and being-on-boardness with the dedication of a site for that. Perhaps because I substantially inhabit and enact a "first-tier" life - a plenitude of conventionality and messy early life pre-conventional dynamics. Maybe add to this quite ordinarily limited AQALly relational mind the apparency that "my spirituality" is undeveloped or not easily articulable from who I seem to be to myself, within how this world seems to me to be, I almost don't fit in at a specialty forum like this.

Of course part of that "limited AQALly relational mind" is implicitly the fluid and not well-domesticated features of bio-human fundamentals, like physiological arousal, personally idiosyncratic sensory thresholds, interest, motivation, capacities for attention and focus, the washing and rinsing and muddying of affective and emotional flows, shiftable baseline tonicities and tonalities and noise and thrum. Oy vey - "integral postmetaphysical spirituality" - huh?

What an oddly expressed state/structure/spirit intro of the moment, eh.

I start this thread partly to carve a place for myself without so much cognitive-affective dissonance around the theme of this website. If this inflating of a side bubble (this thread) into the structural forum organism is permitted, it may allow and encourage me to present more of what catches my attention and interest within the general amoeba-like pulsing of my mundanity. If this detracts, distracts, or dilutes the furthering of inquiry, maybe Bruce or you many will let me know and influence my inclinations for posting.

It probably should also be owned aloud that in the complex progressive and regressive and randomesque articulation of myself, this introduction is probably mainly, and obviously, LUQ - part apology for limitation and crazy-likeness, part differentiation-individuation, part self-justification for less disciplined self-expression, part fitting in and part setting apart, and part pure aiyaiyaiyaiyai and bwahwahh!!

One hope for cognitive-affective integrity is, using the jargon of metaphysics of adjacency, all that I have jabbered here, may be just a hair's breadth, a whisker's whisper, an immediate logical and quantum adjacency to what is intended in the exploration of Integral Postmetaphysical Spirituality. May it be so. Or not.

So, coming under this thread, if it continues to be pressed upon silicon screens, might be everyday news bits, cultural flotsam, and who-knows-how-related-to-spirit-and-spirituality content. Pre/trans/post/non, part-energy/part-matter, part-OhM/part-natter, part-aha/part-hah/part-hahaha.

[Ambo Suno]

The precipitating impulse for this thread was reading a small, slightly dorky-in-obviousness, news factoid about the importance for children as reported by them for "discipline."

Though I am almost sure there has been both permission and a somewhat relevant thread existing somewhere on IPMS, this was an opportunity to explicitly and overtly relieve some of my feeling of dissonance.

After getting sidetracked by my framing riff, I couldn't find the news source that I was looking at to link here.

As I have been looking without success now for that article, I think I will nonetheless exercise my fresh intention by placing a link to an NPR series. This public radio program will be looking at "ideas" for improving education.
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/12/446351549/ideas-a-new-ser...

Ahh.

[andrew]

Hey Ambo, the valleys offer the most secure long term residence . But indeed, all the adjacent mountains get most of the glory:)

[DavidM58]

Ambo,

My humble suggestion is to ignore the title of this forum with the big words, and focus on the subtitle that tells us what this site is really about: "participatory spirituality for the 21st Century." 

I'm always interested in what you have to say, contribute, respond to. Surely the "shiftable baseline tonicities and tonalities and noise and thrum" are a big part of what it's all about, no?

[andrew]

Am feeling chirpy today! Lol oh, I know, there are definitely folks out there who like hunting birds! 

Look, I advocate for Integral ( integrity/integration/new thinking/new consciousness ) everywhere I go . Having said that, I maintain that no one group should get to define what integral is . And on post metaphysics : there are many streams of thought therein that I agree with. I just believe it is error and false to claim definitive proof about the nature of reality . As I see it there are on the earth today a multiplicity of camps claiming certainty ; that certainty claim is errant , imo .

[Balder]

This site, once the prized first-born, has now become something of the neglected stepchild for me.  So much more activity is happening on the FB version of the site, my attention has been pulled away from here.  I am not tending it or cultivating it as well as I used to (and I apologize for that).

But none of that deals with the, yes, rather specialized "focus" of this group.  I started it, Ambo, originally as one among several forums I moderated on Zaadz -- as a place to focus especially on discussions of the so-called "Wilber-V" writings (Integral Spirituality and the various Kosmos Excerpts).  I already belonged to another Integral site on Zaadz and I didn't want to dwell so much there on this more esoteric stuff, so I created my own space for it.  I didn't expect it to have longevity, or to grow and develop in the way that it did (which happened, in part, due to the educational process that started for me, as I started looking more into the philosophical roots and sources of "postmetaphysical thinking."  And theurj and several others were very important companions, guides, and sparring - and dancing - partners in that journey).

So, that's my 'justification' for the existence of a site like this, if it really needs justification.  But I agree with David's advice:  focus on the subtitle if that feels more comfortable.  And by all means, please feel free to keep showing up as you have been -- messy/nuanced and all.  Your contributions are welcome.

[Ambo Suno]

Andrew - nice simple metaphor. Thx.

Hey Ambo, the valleys offer the most secure long term residence . But indeed, all the adjacent mountains get most of the glory:)

[Ambo Suno]

Thanks, David. Good suggestion. If I can actually ignore the 'big words' and worthy explorations :)



DavidM58 said:

Ambo,

My humble suggestion is to ignore the title of this forum with the big words, and focus on the subtitle that tells us what this site is really about: "participatory spirituality for the 21st Century." 

I'm always interested in what you have to say, contribute, respond to. Surely the "shiftable baseline tonicities and tonalities and noise and thrum" are a big part of what it's all about, no?

[Ambo Suno]

Thanks, Bruce, for the comment. I follow you.

Though it sounded a bit like a criticism of the site in that monstrosity of a first sentence, I wasn't feeling it much as that. I was truly wanting to own my ongoing dissonance and figuratively and gestureally carve out a space for the stuff that isn't quite on focus that often interests me, but also isn't unrelated either.

My post-metaphysical, pre-metaphysical, and all the rest is a dance in progress.

I'm glad you have created this site (neglected step-sister though it may at times be) and really I have often enough felt enriched by the metaphysics and the further "postmetaphysical" turns that sometimes look similar for me to premetaphysical experiencing.

Though often I do seem to feel and consider things in what are more the language of premetaphysical perception, feeling, schema, image, metaphor, and simple thought forms, I suspect that for me the post and pre often seem blended. Partly what has been patterned since early childhood and partly what has been distilled, condensed, precipitated out of metaphysical beliefs that I have taken in, like some Christian and Buddhist rules and principles, and apparently re-integrated, may be for me a postmetaphysical development.

As happens, if I feel the inclination to try to help someone, relieve someone of an embarrassing moment, ease someone's tension, lend a hand, I might find that my configuration seems partly like very early life empathy, partly like reflexively expressing an introjected injunction or metaphysical principle to be good, and maybe partly an even more mentally mature processed and integrated compassionate action, after I have been around the idea-and-life bush a few times. In the complex brew of a moral/ethical moment, I have trouble saying clearly, "post-metaphysical spirituality" in action.

And I really don't know if what I just said is adequately post-metaphysical cogency or gobbledygook.

Yeah, maybe, a dance in process. Thank you each for helping clarify for this moment some things - if I am not in fact crazy :)

I remember your work from Gaia and have appreciated the movements of forums you have facilitated - apparently an organic-like following of your interests and other motivations. This specialty site makes sense.

Thanks for making room.



Balder said:

This site, once the prized first-born, has now become something of the neglected stepchild for me.  So much more activity is happening on the FB version of the site, my attention has been pulled away from here.  I am not tending it or cultivating it as well as I used to (and I apologize for that).

But none of that deals with the, yes, rather specialized "focus" of this group.  I started it, Ambo, originally as one among several forums I moderated on Zaadz -- as a place to focus especially on discussions of the so-called "Wilber-V" writings (Integral Spirituality and the various Kosmos Excerpts).  I already belonged to another Integral site on Zaadz and I didn't want to dwell so much there on this more esoteric stuff, so I created my own space for it.  I didn't expect it to have longevity, or to grow and develop in the way that it did (which happened, in part, due to the educational process that started for me, as I started looking more into the philosophical roots and sources of "postmetaphysical thinking."  And theurj and several others were very important companions, guides, and sparring - and dancing - partners in that journey).

So, that's my 'justification' for the existence of a site like this, if it really needs justification.  But I agree with David's advice:  focus on the subtitle if that feels more comfortable.  And by all means, please feel free to keep showing up as you have been -- messy/nuanced and all.  Your contributions are welcome.

[Ambo Suno]

As I awake this morning and find myself processing my posts and interactions on this thread, I need to acknowledge that there are more background dynamics from my current life moving, influencing, and vaguely imbuing what I have brought forward as though it be simply the issue I raised. Just sayin. LUQ also rules. Which means All Quadrants and apparently a fully AQAL involvement, though the personal individual interior is most prominent in my awareness as driver. As so often is with me, and maybe us, it seems to me. Just sayin.
TFB (thanks for being),



Ambo Suno said:

Thanks, Bruce, for the comment. I follow you.

Though it sounded a bit like a criticism of the site in that monstrosity of a first sentence, I wasn't feeling it much as that. I was truly wanting to own my ongoing dissonance and figuratively and gestureally carve out a space for the stuff that isn't quite on focus that often interests me, but also isn't unrelated either.

My post-metaphysical, pre-metaphysical, and all the rest is a dance in progress.

I'm glad you have created this site (neglected step-sister though it may at times be) and really I have often enough felt enriched by the metaphysics and the further "postmetaphysical" turns that sometimes look similar for me to premetaphysical experiencing.

Though often I do seem to feel and consider things in what are more the language of premetaphysical perception, feeling, schema, image, metaphor, and simple thought forms, I suspect that for me the post and pre often seem blended. Partly what has been patterned since early childhood and partly what has been distilled, condensed, precipitated out of metaphysical beliefs that I have taken in, like some Christian and Buddhist rules and principles, and apparently re-integrated, may be for me a postmetaphysical development.

As happens, if I feel the inclination to try to help someone, relieve someone of an embarrassing moment, ease someone's tension, lend a hand, I might find that my configuration seems partly like very early life empathy, partly like reflexively expressing an introjected injunction or metaphysical principle to be good, and maybe partly an even more mentally mature processed and integrated compassionate action, after I have been around the idea-and-life bush a few times. In the complex brew of a moral/ethical moment, I have trouble saying clearly, "post-metaphysical spirituality" in action.

And I really don't know if what I just said is adequately post-metaphysical cogency or gobbledygook.

Yeah, maybe, a dance in process. Thank you each for helping clarify for this moment some things - if I am not in fact crazy :)

I remember your work from Gaia and have appreciated the movements of forums you have facilitated - apparently an organic-like following of your interests and other motivations. This specialty site makes sense.

Thanks for making room.



Balder said:

This site, once the prized first-born, has now become something of the neglected stepchild for me.  So much more activity is happening on the FB version of the site, my attention has been pulled away from here.  I am not tending it or cultivating it as well as I used to (and I apologize for that).

But none of that deals with the, yes, rather specialized "focus" of this group.  I started it, Ambo, originally as one among several forums I moderated on Zaadz -- as a place to focus especially on discussions of the so-called "Wilber-V" writings (Integral Spirituality and the various Kosmos Excerpts).  I already belonged to another Integral site on Zaadz and I didn't want to dwell so much there on this more esoteric stuff, so I created my own space for it.  I didn't expect it to have longevity, or to grow and develop in the way that it did (which happened, in part, due to the educational process that started for me, as I started looking more into the philosophical roots and sources of "postmetaphysical thinking."  And theurj and several others were very important companions, guides, and sparring - and dancing - partners in that journey).

So, that's my 'justification' for the existence of a site like this, if it really needs justification.  But I agree with David's advice:  focus on the subtitle if that feels more comfortable.  And by all means, please feel free to keep showing up as you have been -- messy/nuanced and all.  Your contributions are welcome.