A link to new cosmological conjectures by the highly creative mathematician and theoretical physicist Roger Penrose. 


An old eon theory actualized.



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I heard this guy speak in Toronto once and I really like the way he thinks: clear, insightful, sane, able to present the various options or positions and then situate them in a larger picture, able to articulate what is at stake and why it is important, not afraid of the big philosophical issues or difficult problems of math and physics, and so on. A first rate intellect, imo. The right combination of scientist and philosopher.



I understand him as calling into question a certain hubris among AI geeks and cosmologists who think that "have it" (the "answer") when in fact they are no where near.

Ciao kela

yes, a first rate intellectual and not afraid to test new ways.

I like that "tradition" of creative english mathematicians and philosophers. Newton,  Russel, Whitehead, Dirac, Eddington, james jeans

This thesis is also very impressing and so interesting.

I have read other books "shadows of the minds and "the emperor´s new mind", there are a tour de force

in writing context and intellectual challenge. He presents sophisticated arguments of quamtun physics in a language  that doesn´t denature their primary aim. Anyhow his quantum consciouness theory is interesting for biologists because it can be a bridge to understand some serious issues like synaptic transmissions, neural communication at a level prior to genetic and embryological becoming and tissue organisation.


AI geeks etc... I thought about  the embarrassing arrogance of Daniel Dennett and his connectionism for example.

that dude´s  books are such a bore.





Here's a thread that explored the Penrose-Hameroff model of quantum mind, a highly contentious proposition rooted in the most metaphysical Platonism. Talk about your ineffective mix-and-match science to spirituality big-story metaphors most often used by woo woo specialist Deepak Chopra.

what is wrong in studying matter that way instead of listening to the Chopra babblng in too easy upanishadic or yogacharic speculations?


Penrose described himslef metaphorically as a platonist just in contrast to the straightforward positivism of Stephen Hawking. I see him as a open an honest problem-solving scientist asking good questions which is how science activity  should be.


And digging empirically at quantum level is very logical. If the conjecture: the proto-mathematical laws governing the ordering of matter and perhaps the emergence of proto-mind where present at the so called initial conditions during the big banf explosion then they should be preserved at that quantum level at micritibylar level udnerlying underlying the histologicak structure of the synaptic membrane. The new question asked by Penrose is: it is even possible that previous laws of a previous universe are still preserved in low-entropic organised state.

Has Varela given an emprically satisfying answer to explain autopeoisis or it isn´t a metaphysical assumption??

Has anyone given a satisfying answer yet to the "hard problem" in case it will be such ?

Kw and his satori paradigm?


Very challenging the idea.




it's a circle ya dum dums. how could it not be otherwise?
how do i know? BEcause I am GOD.

kelamuni said:
HEY Ray. yer wrong.


In boozis veritas, Kelito?


God : it's a circle ya dum dums. how could it not be otherwise?


Well old man that's because you have been sitting in one spot for too long. If you tilt that circle on its axis you will see that it is in fact a spiral. That shift in perspective will allow you to get off your eternal wheel.



Has anyone given a satisfying answer yet to the "hard problem" in case it will be such ?


Krishnamurti : The observer is the observed.



"Religions are generally bad, but religion itself is not."

~Kurt Godel

Godel was actually a theist who believed in a personal God. He wrote a version of Leibniz's ontological proof reformulating it in terms of predicate logic. One wonders about what he thought about his incompleteness theorems. From what I have gleaned, he is more cautious than Pentrose as to what they mean as per our understanding of the human mind, consciousness, and reason.

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What paths lie ahead for religion and spirituality in the 21st Century? How might the insights of modernity and post-modernity impact and inform humanity's ancient wisdom traditions? How are we to enact, together, new spiritual visions – independently, or within our respective traditions – that can respond adequately to the challenges of our times?

This group is for anyone interested in exploring these questions and tracing out the horizons of an integral post-metaphysical spirituality.

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