John Michael Greer

[andrew]

This is as good a summary of our present predicaments that I've read anywhere from anyone: 

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-09-18/dark-age-america-the-e...

 

[andrew]

Naomi Klein in The Globe: 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/books-and-media/book-reviews/na...

Maybe Greer could assess her take on things at some point? 

My 2 cents: one of the core platforms of the corporatocracy is to pass all responsibility to the individual; while they take no responsibility, or abrogate responsibility through paid for court systems. . THEY know that the lone recycler meme is meaningless. One could almost think that THEY are trying to destroy the earth on purpose.

It's the mentality of the commodification of everything that is the root problem here. And that is a spiritual issue which can only be solved by healthy relationship to___. 

Some advice: U2 stay at home and do your concerts virtually, seriously!

[andrew]

300,000 in NY today! That is impressive!

To me, one of the most important insights in Greer's essay is the potential stability of a societies system while using a renewable energy source. I think this is quite important because it would allow some form of capitalism to continue; just not to the PC cartels.  Bankers may want to consider this very carefully. If an Integral society does take centuries to achieve then a pragmatic approach to capitalism may be the most viable path forward ( there is no integral society while civilization collapses). I've previously granted the PC cartels did bring civilization to an astonishing apex. Nonetheless, in the beginning of their era THEY put a ton of people out of business and didn't think one iota about it. Moreover,  the transfer of capital to renewables should create substantial economic benefit to our societies i.e.- Roosevelt and recently Rifkin. I have my doubts that this transition will lead to any substantial egalitarian society but it may buy us time to develop into a CIVILization. 

The Rockefella's have apparently divested their  foundation money away from fossil fuels.

Dealing with the issue of the commodification of everything is probably well into the distant future provided we can get that far.

[andrew]

I wasn't able to walk yesterday as I had work commitments , but here is the link to Vancouver: 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/news/10223188/story.html?tab=PHOT

The first comment is quite typical of the Canadian business class, I agree with the first part and have been arguing lately that the best way to deal with this level of denial is to frame this issue more broadly as pollution in general. The recent Mount Polley disaster here had little to do with C02 pollution. It did have a lot to do with neoliberal deregulation policies which in general are licences for the lowest memes(greed) in society to pollute, pollute, pollute. Not to mention wealth transfer under neoliberalism . 

Firstly though, I think the best tactic is to turn the PC cartels into social pariahs ( that they are) much like society did with the tobacco companies. 

[andrew]

This may be another tactic we can use against the PC cartels: 

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/closing-arguments-begin-in-22-billion-an...

Anyone for a trillion dollar class action against these apostles of the fossil?

[andrew]

and this: 

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/breaking-news-rebirth-occupy-...

I guess they are not buying my leave the bankers out of this one! Seriously though, this might be an opportunity for the bankers to gain some much needed redemption. All they have to do is ditch some of their old buddies in Boardwalk Empire fashion, and cozy up to some new green pals minus the egalitarianism. But look, just buy out the farmers before you start building the wind farms; its not good business to traumatize these families.

[andrew]

Hedges on the march:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_coming_climate_revolt_20140921

We should probably note some coincidences: ISIL amazingly comes to life as Israel pounds the living daylights out of gaza again this summer. Within 24 hours of the climate rally Barack O'Bush starts invading Syria, while ISIL threatens terrorism to western nations. I guess it would have been too much to ask 1 billion muslims to fight their  own terrorists, eh? 

[andrew]

I'll link Daniel Pinchbeck here: 

http://www.danielpinchbeck.net/category/blog/

It seems that he has a new project. I also like how he likens the corporatocracy to a medicinal poison.

There is also a new CC video called Disruption that I will check out and report on.

[DavidM58]

Andrew,

I've been following John Michael Greer for about 10 years now, and he's been writing on these themes for even longer. So far events have been following his trajectory pretty closely, so he's definitely worth paying attention to.  His theory about catabolic collapse needs a lot wider attention.  Because I read his blog, I have not read his books, but do believe they are worthwhile:

 

On a somewhat related note, Paul Krugman recently opined that we can continue to enjoy a growing economy while fighting climate change, and he put the Post Carbon Institute in the "climate despair" category along with the Koch Brothers. As an opinion piece, Krugman was very short on details.

In reply, Richard Heinberg (from the Post Carbon Institute, and author of The End of Growth), laid out a very cogently argued stance which outlines numerous points that desparately need to be addressed if there is to be any hope of softening or slowing our collapsing infrastructure.  

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-09-22/paul-krugman-s-errors-...

Krugman's Errors:

1. He mistakes post-growth realism for anti-growth activism. 

 

2. He misrepresents his sources. 

 

3. He assumes that wind and solar can substitute for all uses of fossil fuels. 

 

4. He claims it is easy to slash carbon emissions. 

 

5. He assumes that a meaningful price on carbon would only impact direct energy prices. 

 

Now Paul Krugman’s omissions: 

 

1. He omits mentioning what rate of greenhouse gas emissions reduction he thinks is necessary. 

 

2. He omits mention of constraints to fossil fuel supplies. 

 

3. He omits mention of energy returned on energy invested, or EROEI. 

"To be clear, we at Post Carbon Institute advocate massively deploying renewable energy and putting a price on carbon. If humanity has any hope for the future, there is simply no other option. But we just don’t see how this can be achieved without: 1) raising the cost of energy and 2) leading to an increase in greenhouse gas emissions during the renewables build-out, unless other parts of the economy are allowed to contract. When it comes to energy, there is no free lunch.

 

Ultimately, climate change is not the only reason perpetual economic growth is incompatible with a finite planet. The world faces a suite of ecological problems related to water, soil, and biodiversity, all stemming from past growth, and all seemingly requiring reduction in human consumption levels for their solution.

 

We believe that humanity can enjoy an improved quality of life and build a more sustainable future even as we reduce overall resource throughput. There is ample waste to be cut in the excessively consumption-oriented western way of life, and there’s still plenty of opportunity for less-wealthy countries to develop their economic and social systems in ways that are truly equitable and sustainable (and not fossil fuel-reliant). But that means changing priorities. Like fossil fuels, the growth fetish is something we must leave behind if we are going to have any chance of living sustainably on this planet."

[andrew]

Hi David, thanks for chiming in here! I surfed across his work back on the old zaadz site and appreciated it right away; although i come and go from it. Briefly, I would think it's an error to dismiss someone like this based on SD colour coding. I'm going to get back to you on this as I just surfed this : 

http://www.integralworld.net/maalouf1.html

and want to comment on it. My threads are prone to some stream of consciousness wandering:) 

Anyway, I appreciate Maaloouf's mapping there; but I do feel  compelled to make this point, and it's a point that the western left makes quite often; given recent history in the mid-east. They DID already have autocratic political systems in place prior to 911. Assad, Gaddafi, Hussein, etc. , and I think it's a fair assessment to say that all we have accomplished is a step backwards to tribal warlords! I think it is also a  fair question to ask if these next recent waves of involvement are going to set that region even further back? Does anyone have a clue as to what is trying to be achieved there?

[andrew]

BTW., David, have you come across or talked to Greer about any thoughts that he's written or spoken about on IT?

[DavidM58]

I have not seen Greer comment about IT, but I have a strong hunch he would not be impressed; he sees history as running in cycles, and not continuous development such as SDi teaches.  This might put him closer to Gebser's views, but I haven't seen him mention Gebser.  He likes Toynbee and Spengler for his big picture on history.

I suggest you also check out the writing of Peter Pogany.  Reminds me of Greer in a lot of ways, bringing in the big picture of many disciplines and the sweep of history. Pogany was a member of the Jean Gebser society.  I haven't seen him reference Wilber, but he references Alan Combs. He's authored a book called "Rethinking the World,"  and the soon to be released "21st Century, Thy Name is Havoc."  Sadly, he passed away earlier this year.

Check out this short blog post and the longer paper it links to:

"This may come as a surprise to you. Al Gore, Stephen King, and Jean Gebser are related. How? Let me explain..."

http://blog.gebser.net/

andrew said:

BTW., David, have you come across or talked to Greer about any thoughts that he's written or spoken about on IT?

[andrew]

Hey David, I just went over the Krugman op-ed and PCI response. I can't help but feel that Krugman is serving up sweet confectionaries to a upwardly mobile green demographic. I'm afraid the truth of addiction is a little more sordid than that. This is going to be as painful as it gets especially given the nature of the dealers involved. The dealers also have the momentum as all the data indicates with C02 consumption. I'm also not sure that it helps to downplay the enormous complexities involved; whether natural eco-systems, or human economic and political systems. I have been arguing of late, too, that there is a wider spectrum of problems that can't be dismissed as irrelevant, even accounting for the severity of the carbon problem. 

i just watched Disruption and here are some quick reactions: 

- why on earth would they voice Obama and Kerry given all the recent information on this admins complicity with big PC?

-Noami Klein does seem in this doc to be arguing for some form of New Deal/Roosevelt/Keynesian intervention. 

- I'm happy to see some ministers taken it to the streets as this is more consistent with healthy theism than the abomination that is the apocalyptic cheerleading squad of the Christian Zionists ( a group i've claimed are run by CIA).

- it''s true, but a besides the point argument that the earths eco-systems may naturally heat the planet to the point of disruption over the earths history . What is clearly true now, is that this time the blame falls on us and our behaviour.

-we can see a clear causal connection to the rise of CC awareness in the '80's which ushered in a major counter offensive by Reagan/Thatcher and neoliberal PCMIC policies.

-GW Bush's comments are sickeningly funny given what has happened since then. The last thing that guy ( or Washington today) cared about were jobs for American families.

-half the pentagon's budget is tied to the PC cartels. Hence my PCMIC and it's dirty war agenda.

- if one knows anything about dealers it's that they are chronic liars.

Hey David, thanks for the link and for visiting the Integral Blacklist thread!