Your thoughts on the Occupy Movement?

[Nicole]

I'm sure you've seen the articles, the videos, and FB pages -

 MSNBC - Occupy Wall Street supporters demonstrate in cities from co...

Occupy Voting Booths 2012.

 

Click to here to join the Wall Street occupiers and demand real dem...

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-21/wall-street-aristocracy-go...

 

Occupy Toronto

 

 Occupy Philly protesters march to Liberty Bell | Deseret News

 

What do you think about it all?

[Edward theurj Berge]

Bravo for the recognition of social engagement. However as  one example of such integral engagement he lists conscious capitalism (CC). Until they can face how CC is itself antithetical to the very Occupy movement in its perpetuation of the social injustices it seeks to remedy they are defeating their noble intentions. This thread might awaken them somewhat, if they are serious about this and open to alternative integral (intergraal) critique. Also this thread on alternative economics based on Christian Arnsperger's ideas would be helpful, as well as this thread on progressive economics. And this one on Jeremy Rifkin, who espouses a blatant developmental socio-economic model and about whom one never hears in kennilingus circles.

[Edward theurj Berge]

I added the above as a comment to the B&S thread. Let's see how they respond.

[Edward theurj Berge]

My last post was also at my blog as well as a comment at the B&S post. John Bunzl commented on my blog post pointing to his ILR article here. These are the questions he attempts to answer:

"When using AQAL to consider organisations a number of questions immediately spring to mind. For example, is an organisation a collective holon because it involves a number of people, or is it an individual holon because it acts in the world as a single entity? Beyond that, to what extent can organisations be said to reflect the values of their employees? Or do they mainly reflect the values of their leaders? And if the latter, to what extent are leaders influenced by the wider economy and society? Moreover, are a leader’s private values always aligned with their professional behaviour? Or can there be a divergence between the two and, if so, why? And finally, given that many organisations now operate globally, to what extent are they still embedded in a wider social context? In other words, how socially accountable are today’s organisations?"

[Edward theurj Berge]

I appreciate John's comments about corporate coaches:

"What both corporations and consultants are missing, then, is that the problem lies not so much with corporations themselves, but in the present lack of any globally binding regulations to which all corporations must conform, (a lack, that is, in the LL/LR). It lies, in short, in the 'governance gap' we earlier described; in the present lack of global political consciousness and, likewise, in the corresponding lack of any binding form of global governance. Thus, by ignoring or simply failing to recognise the necessity of achieving global governance, organisational consultants, as well as the corporations themselves, not only foster a false sense of security in the ability of corporations to behave responsibly, they subtly absolutise the role of corporations and, by the same token, negate the proper role of government. By that omission, consultants are therefore complicit, unwittingly, in helping corporations to elevate themselves to their present 'arrogant' holonic status."

One can obtain a free download of his book People-centered Global Governance here.

[Edward theurj Berge]

Upon further reflection, corporations were created by the now dysfunctional economic system called capitalism and are part and parcel of the problem. Just at we must evolve beyond capitalism we must create business entities beyond the corporation. Many such democratically run businesses now exist as such a transition step in this direction. And at the very least any org daring to call itself integral should be exploring these directions. See the referenced threads above for my copious and frothing past ruminations.

[Edward theurj Berge]

If you'd bother to read what I've written about this previously, which you obviously never do, you'd see that I've said both capitalism and corporations may have been necessary to the evolutionary process but both now need to be replaced with other forms of socio-economic organization. I've also said the conscious capitalism, including within corporations, is a step in the right direction, but again any org calling itself integral has to think of the steps beyond that. And of course I've provided many examples of those doing exactly that but I-I is not among them. All of which is ludicrously ironic given your own intense criticism of the current state of corporate degeneration causing the global financial crisis.

[andrew]

Question: Why would I buy car insurance if I knew that the insurance company had no intention of honoring a claim? Are the bondholders complete friggin' morons? And how does one dupe this many bondholders on this type of scale? It's like saying that everyone in Canada would buy car insurance knowing that their insurance companies have no intention of paying any claims. Are you sure that link on the CDS is an accurate analysis of the situation? This is what wiki says about MF Global failure:  MF Global broke rules on keeping customer money separate from its own trading accounts. So did MF Global fail because of dubious internal practices or because a CDS wasn't honored?

[Edward theurj Berge]

Bonnie commented at the B&S post. A few lines from her comment:

"There is the option of developing the current system to better forms (conscious capitalism) versus the full-bore option of completely reinventing the systems of values and exchanges between humans. The former is based on developmental stage logics, and the latter is based on a true understanding of evolutionary processes (which are discontinuous and not stage-related).... What I see is that the old system is completely exhausted, including the very structure of consciousness and the dialectical/discursive types of reasoning we employ to inquire into problems and solutions -- so I am one of the people who are only interested in paradigmatic/evolutionary leap -- while appreciating the efforts of those who, from my view, are merely tweaking the system."

[andrew]

Bonnie has studied MLK!

And a word from one who appears to be a tweaker:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/earth/the-age-of-energy/905735...

[andrew]

Here is a link that discusses CDS'.....

http://richnewman.wordpress.com/2007/12/09/a-beginners-guide-to-cre...

Greece has a population of 12 million and ranks about 75th on the global population scale. So not insignificant but not exactly top 10, either. So why would a Greek default lead to a global economic catastrophe? I'll give the author of that link credit for coming up with a somewhat coherent explanation-the first one i've come across in 2 years- but i'd appreciate anyone else's knowledge and perspective on this one. This is too important an issue to leave to propaganda. If i am looking at a future of riding train cars because of a Greek default i'd like to bloody well know why! And i'd like the information to be accurate....

[andrew]

Here is an update on the Greek situation:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203961204577269643946...

This article is saying that the implementation if the CDS will NOT trigger an international global collapse. It seems that the CDS will be used in a way that they were designed to be used. All i would add is that the CDS industry should be fully regulated..............

[andrew]

It's this kind of thing that drives me nuts:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203961204577269841477...

And this is where OWS has been right: how did we get to the point where CEOs get rewarded for failure and criminal negligence (the 2008 meltdown)?

Just because pragmatism puts me in the 'tweakers' camp doesn't mean i don't get and feel righteously indignant when this kind of thing gets rubbed in my/our face. I would love it if righteous indignation could magically reinvent the way that humanity goes about trading goods and services; but, it doesn't, spontaneous reinvention is the domain of the gods; and i don't hold my breath for those slackers anymore.