Hi all

 

This is a rather urgent question I am asking.

The situation is quite confusing, but the tunisian and egyption people are truly manifesting their deep needs of freedom

I don´t know what sort of spiritual process is going on but it is huge.

 

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Hi Xib,

Despite the prevailing fear about who or what might replace the Mubarak regime I'm grateful that Avaaz have a statement of solidarity with the protesters to sign: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/democracy_for_egypt/?cl=926138082&v...

 

Perhaps the people of the US can learn something about mass demonstrations in the streets to thwart injustice?

Whoa. Thanks for finding/sharing that video, Bruce.

 

Can somebody here try to frame what's happening in Egypt in "Spiral Dynamical" terms? Is this some kind of Orange uprising? Or is that oversimplifying it? 

 

 

One more powerful video that I just saw through friends' links on Facebook.  Amazing footage of demonstrators praying and being blasted with water cannons.

 

Here's Slavoj Zizek's commentary on the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia.

"The cynical wisdom of western liberals, according to which, in Arab countries, genuine democratic sense is limited to narrow liberal elites while the vast majority can only be mobilised through religious fundamentalism or nationalism, has been proven wrong."

 

Well, let's hope so, at least.

Hi Balder

I am rather skeptical of Zizek´s answer, in a sense he is right, but just by looking at the socio-cultural structure of Egypt, we see a patrilinear organisation dominating the basic structures of kinship relationships. With a population of 80 millions and rate of illiteracy of 45%, this is a too favorable terrain for the mythic meme to flourish into a dominant  demagogic islamic grounded socio-political discourse, telling lies and manipulating  these poor populations by giving them religiouly based consolating solutions to the reining social misery. This is the classical anti-modern discourse of fundamentalistic islam taking roots in the soil of poverty. 

 

The other way is more difficult, the path pf grooth toward modernity,  it is a much slower process of successive differentiation of value spheres, and it hasn´t yet truly begun so substancially in the arab-muslim world.

So it si too easy for Zizek to speak from his postmodern college pulpit ignoring the underlying ground. By the way, I have never seen so nervous a philosophy professor he is before. He becomes quasi maniac when he gives a lecture,

Jiddu where are you?

hahahhahah

 

 



Balder said:

Here's Slavoj Zizek's commentary on the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia.
Yes, Bill Maher explored this on his show last night. While the push to dethrone a dictator is good what will be created in the vacuum? He made note for example that the vast majority of the populace still believes in stoning someone to death for marital infidelity. They would be ripe not for democracy but for a radical Islamic fundamentalist takeover.

yes so it is much better to speak of upcoming of a relative democracy, with all cautiousness in defining it. It is sort of a cognitive dissonance here, Children of muslims living in large surburb areas of european megapols are socialized each day according to standards of western democracy canons. they are asked to write at schools essays on gender equality, gays rights, animal rights, etc.. and when they are back at home the afternoon, they control how their sisters look like, the lenght of their skirts, the make-up, asking their own spies if they are not dating someone. a complete dfferent picture from the ideal-type presented at school.

What about a country like Egypt where timid attempts to socialize at compulsive school level as written above are completely inexistant?

What has the "omniscient" Kenny to say about these dynamics of micropolitics of "integral" relative socialization in a country where the name Michel Foucault the french "fag"is totally banished or demonized? 

hahahhaha

 



theurj said:

Yes, Bill Maher explored this on his show last night. While the push to dethrone a dictator is good what will be created in the vacuum? He made note for example that the vast majority of the populace still believes in stoning someone to death for marital infidelity. They would be ripe not for democracy but for a radical Islamic fundamentalist takeover.

As a Muslim, i can tell you that for the first time , I am noticing  a big change  in the way Muslims are looking at the revolution. Iranian revolution , unfortunately constantly, reminds us of religious fervor gone sour.. However if you look at  even Iran, basically it is the west that has disowned Iran under pressure of Arabs. Iran is very much a well educated , bright independent lot  which is facing discrimination of Arab insecurities via western embargoes.

Egypt and Tunisia are not your typical Arab countries. they have poverty but they do have relative freedom of expression  as well. Women have more freedom then countries like Saudia etc. Given this scenario, it is not very surprising that one day the young ones got out of the university and stood on the road..These young ones are  the life blood of any revolution..Remember during Vietnam war, USA was over flowing with young people who walked the anti war marches.. Arab world is full of young people..it was expected..only doubt was  when.

It is a sorry state of affair in the west though where media harps the perpetual  horn of fear that Islamists are coming. So what..Has any Islamist regime survived before that that  it would now? If Kingdoms like Saudi are there, it is also thanks to the western interest.

Stop getting scared of the religious extremests and they would stop being so important. Celebrate and support the revolution and more will follow. nations live to see such a day..

 

Got tired of eating American style Mchamburger kebabs. hahaha.

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