Participatory Spirituality for the 21st Century
Aronofsky has a new pic out. I know that some folks in this community are a fan of his work so up this post goes. I am going to use this post, if nobody objects too strongly, to write all i know about that story. It's something i spent a lot of time investigating and i've never really talked about it. First, let me say for those of you who don't know me that i don't identify myself as a Christian and haven't for over 30 years. I was raised secularly and couldn't really tell you what a church was when i was sixteen, let alone wonder about god. I think though, as far as i can remember, that i've always had this strange feeling that something was very much wrong on this planet, and that , that feeling goes right back to childhood. Now, to be fair, there was a brief period of time in my early 20's when i did identify with evangelical Christianity, but a year or so after sensing the corruption within that institution, i became what i now call an independent. I am still this way today; spiritually and politically.
Please be aware that very little that i post here will be from my imagination directly, most everything will come from the history of human literature on this mythology. Now i'm quite sure i hear Julian's voice in the noosphere saying, ' Andrew, this is just silly," well, perhaps, but this has been a part of my path, Aronofsky choose this subject matter, and without seeing the film, i can reasonable guess that it will not reflect what is said in these books.
It should be noted, that at the time Jesus lived, The Book of Enoch was part of the religious canon. Most people within that community believed strongly in those stories as far as my study of history shows, and that Jesus quoted from these stories a number of times, mentioning that his return would be surrounded by events that were just like what happened in those days. I'll certainly return to this later.
Now, i am not really interested in challenging histories orthodoxy on humanities past .That is not what this is about, but what i do think is somewhat possible though, is the idea that prior to the development of the written word, history gets a little bit murkier. By saying this, i am not suggesting there was a global flood, i am just suggesting that things are a little more unsure the farther back one goes from the written word. Obviously, this premise would be throughly attacked by historic fundamentalists; i don't care!
Okay, i am going to stop here for now, so The Book of Enoch and the story of god and angels! lol The first place to start on these myths………….
Hey there, mm. Please read the thread carefully and you will find that i said that my belief is that all religious writings are human constructs- therefore completely fallible ; non historical, full of myth, fable, allegory, symbolism and possible unknown spiritual code. I was raised non theistic and don't feel anyone is compelled to believe in god. But in my opinion, these are all different issues than whether god exists or not. I get that many people today choose to believe that god does not exist and i have no problem with that and also know that non theistic people are sometimes and, more often; more ethical and caring than believers. But really, the talking monkey is 150 years out of the plow and in my opinion, because of that, it may be best to still concede the possibility of god; and not abandon the idea altogether. It should also be obvious that i don't have a problem with the notion of a post metaphysical god, but in this thread i wanted to lay out more along the lines of an alternative metaphysics. But people would have to put their bias' aside and read what i am writing carefully.
Just like Pagel's and Armstrong i've done my own research, too ( as a non academic). In this thread i offer for posterity a different version of god. One that is admittedly tied to the person of Jesus; the existence of angels , but the last place i would advise any one to look for truth there is in religion. In this thread, i call the worlds religions the left hand path - the way of corruption. Having said this, it's not completely true that all the worlds religious books are useless.
re reading some of your posts because i noticed that i hadn´t really gotten what you try to say
i came across this : <In this thread i offer for posterity a different version of god. One that is admittedly tied to the person of Jesus; the existence of angels , but the last place i would advise any one to look for truth there is in religion. In this thread, i call the worlds religions the left hand path - the way of corruption. Having said this, it's not completely true that all the worlds religious books are useless. In this thread i offer for posterity a different version of god. One that is admittedly tied to the person of Jesus; the existence of angels , but the last place i would advise any one to look for truth there is in religion. In this thread, i call the worlds religions the left hand path - the way of corruption. Having said this, it's not completely true that all the worlds religious books are useless. /p>
so you are trying to found a new religion : ) a different version of god : ) nothing less : )
what i am trying to do everywhere (incl. here) is pointing out that the west never really got much good religion ever but fell into the bible story book 2000 years ago and then tried in the last 300 years of western history desperatly to crawl out of that ....jewish story line but so far hasn´t really managed to do that really , all the west has managed to do , is , swing to the other side of it ,so now the west is on the negative side of god , it says "we do not belief in you ,you are dead " but it is still in re-action. it is not free of it , and your effort here is just such a case in point. . whereas i say : why not ditch this whole jewish trip and seriously look in those countries that never were affected by this jewish story much: india and china for example and then the perfect derivate of those countries : tibet
their you can find a completly different version of human approach to the spiritual aspect of human or any kind of beings, one which has a multi layered sophistication not seen in any other country and certainly not in the west.
imo IF humanity ever manages to get to a healthy spirituality , the impulse and knowledge can only come from there .
digging around in the jewish chest of myths won´t help a thing. which does not mean that it isnt what the jews should or should not do : thats their business but for the rest of humanity ....
not very usefull and it never was.
back to your words < In this thread, i call the worlds religions the left hand path - the way of corruption. Having said this, it's not completely true that all the worlds religious books are useless. /p>
what do mean by that ?? this is an amazing generalization : the worlds religious books ? which would that be ?
it seems to me that for you thats just the bible and the koran and the torah ...or do you include the various buddhist sutras and the buddhist/hindu tantras ,advaita texts etc also in your "world " religions books. have you ever read any of these .? i doubt it because if you had you could see the utter absurdity of your statement here. <i call the worlds religions the left hand path - the way of corruption.< hahahahaha whats this supposed to mean ????? : )))
the way of corruption ? sounds like you are some protestant wacko that accuses the pope to be the antichrist ......see ? all the same circular logic , round and round . i suggest this : get your nose out the bible long enough to notice : ITS JUST A STORY there is a real world that has absolutly nothing to do with these ........fantasies ....which are nowadays MORE meaningless then ever, for the world !
jesus and then this <, but the last place i would advise any one to look for truth there is in religion< are you actually aware of the fact that the story of jesus IS only relevant for christians and moslems ? IF you look in other religions books you wont find a trace of that guy
not a trace ! and in all the buddhist books sutras and tantras alike you wont even find his father either nor his ghost
and in many of the hindu tatras and shastras etc we find that god there is ..a woman ,surprise surprise
BUT it isnt mother mary : ))) either ,....so ........
your entire post makes increasingly no sense to me
at all. sorry i try but do you actually see how close mindedly you circle just in and around your american backwater world view like confusing your little duckpond with the vast ocean ?
i know that america is a big country BUT hey just try to notice that the world IS an even bigger place then your continent . they do not even speak english everywhere : )))
so ......be well
I very much enjoyed your reply mm! I should like to get back to your points in detail but don't have the time at the moment.
In the meantime, here is another link to ponder:
Even todays secular myths come across as extremely religious in view. I don't know that there is any getting away from it.
New religion? No, not really interested in that. Yes, a different version/hermeneutic, that's true.
I've read most of the worlds religious books (even the big ones)!lol
I concede the cultural conditioning i was brought up in but i was reading Hesse, Huxley, eastern philosophy before i started getting into the western stories. My theory posits that indeed, god knows about Tibet, and where it is and what they believe.
It's not really true that the east never mentioned Jesus because some think that Jesus spent time in India; was in fact teaching eastern philosophy, and further; believe he was an incarnation of Krishna.
In the God/Jesus Matrix all religious people fall into one of two groups: sheep or goats. Those who love and practice kindness and compassion , and avoid mammon. And those who become bigoted, ethnocentric, and aligned with mammon. This is a universal parable.
In the God/ Jesus matrix no one is compelled to be religious. Being secular is quite all right and sometimes more preferable.
The ancient Taoist's were most correct in their understanding of the nature of god:
happy to entertain you : ) and so you use the word god for the word dao and the word jesus
for the word krishna . hmm
well if you have read all the big books and hesse and huxley then you surely are aware of the
but i still do not see the point you are making ,apart from having a bit of fun i guess
sheeps and goats ?
why not just relax be aware and enjoy .....if you have read all the big books i am sure you
must have noticed there is no way to here and no path to now and no belief in anybody name or no name
will ever change that ...fact
what s there to do ?
The point i am suggesting in this thread mm is that as much as humanity knows and thinks it knows; there are still things it doesn't know, and there may be a very good reason why we don't know what we don't know because there has been interference from high places that should not necessarily have happened. That this strangeness has been veiled and covered up over millennia.
The image and symbolism of the Dao ( especially the multidimensional one) is one fairly decent representation of the energy flows of the universe. This isn't to say that that is what god is; but the idea is useful for the human mind as far as it is possible to comprehend such a thing. Mother father archetype, ocean/wave metaphor, all useful tools for the mind.
Specifically, i do not believe personally that Jesus taught Hinduism to the high priests of his age. I think it more likely that he was trying to teach them as much as it was possible at the time that certain ethnocentric ideas were not correct, and were truly misunderstandings, inflations, projections; as you have pointed out in a few of your links.
What's there to do? Watch………….
And engage politically. Breath.
so am i right with the assumption that this state of affairs : <there are still things it doesn't know, and there may be a very good reason why we don't know what we don't know because there has been interference from high places that should not necessarily have happened./p>
was or is done by extra terrestrials or angels in your opinion ?
not by human power mongering and sheer stupidity?
and this comment here :< i do not believe personally that Jesus taught Hinduism to the high priests of his age. I think it more likely that he was trying to teach them as much as it was possible at the time that certain ethnocentric ideas were not correct, and were truly misunderstandings, inflations, projections;/p>
seems to say that you belief that a) jesus didn´t die at he cross nor did he resurrect and then b) he went to india (specificaly to kashmir) and taught the indians there. is that correct ? there is some people who belief this , they say there is even his grave there in kashmir. is that your belief too ?
i am just trying to get your gist here.
be well mm
here some current facts about noahs reception in some areas of the world, where they take their
biblical stories still very serious and happen to still rule too !
The Jewish/Islam/ Christian stories have been and still are compelling to billions and billions of people throughout history. And although Wilber's stage theories explain some of this phenomenon, the God/Jesus Matrix suggests that it doesn't explain all of it. Within this meme there is the generally notion that god exists; that there is a war of some sort in heaven; that humans are fallen; that god is going to redeem some chosen who were supernaturally untouched by this war in heaven. Islam believes they were untouched by deception and are in a privileged state; Christianity believes they were untouched by deception and are in a privileged state; Judaism believes that they are untouched by deception and are in a privileged state.
The God/ Jesus Matrix suggests that there is no war in heaven. That when terrible things happen it is because god wills them to happen. That angels exist and just like humans can choose wrong action. That there are and always have been protocols in place to deal with the effects of wrong action. That the truth of God has not been told accurately within these faiths; that the corruption of the left hand protocols based on human choices led to the situation we have today. That god has to honour human choice as regrettable as these choices continue to be.
Most humans fall into these categories:
god is horribly mean and is going to punish severely most who ever lived. These people believe their group remains free of this punishment.
god does not exist
That aliens are and have been interfering with life on earth.
The God/Jesus/Matrix suggests that all three of these groups are incorrect.
I have studied much history of Jesus' time as a lay person and believe he lived and died as recorded. However, the God/Jesus/ Matrix suggests an alternate interpretation of who Jesus was ( the right hand of god) and what is was trying to teach and impart to humanity. I think it quite likely that Jesus traveled far and wide.
thanks for this clarification. one thing i do not understand : what is this god /jesus/ matrix
i know the matrix trilogy : that was quite a good movie series
but i never heard of a god/jesus matrix
is that your invention and if yes could you explain some more
and if it is not your invention whose invention is it.
maybe i missed this info in your thread ,
i am very busy these days and look only sporadically into the site so i might have missed it.
the matrix of mystery : ))
oh no, its the matrix of jesus god : )
Well, that hmm could turn into a whole heck of a lot of oops if there were anything to what i was proposing here! lol But i concede complete fallibility along these lines. Having said that, i do believe i have a somewhat unique take on things here.
Um, i used to call this The Nephilim theory but recently changed the name to The God/Jesus/Matrix to alter the focus to where i think it should be. I'm not using the word matrix in its mathematical sense; but rather, as a general idea of the veil surrounding the possible state of affairs on this planet. I have borrowed that general idea from those films.
Potentially, things could have continued on and on indefinitely on this planet under this theory. However, i believe we may be in what i call a time of reckoning because humans have crossed a threshold and are choosing to damage the earth's living systems. That, and humans are choosing more and more extreme divisions of wealth in recent decades . These two streams of behaviour may be forcing the right hand protocols to act more than if humans were not making these choices. FYI: two of the most important aspects of the right hand protocols past love and compassion are: truth and justice.
sorry i only reply now , i was in germany for a few month and their nobody can see any music videos on youtube because an institution called gemma blocks all access. its one of those german crazynesses, the reason is that this organization collects money for the artist everywhere in germany , whenever anybody plays something a percentage goes to this gemma and they send it to the artists. kind of cute but totally outdated because nowadays since new medai like youtube do not make a contract with them , because i mean thats insane, just for germany , why should youtube and the others do this , gemma blocks all material in germany .....so nobody wins . thats very german : kill the fun by reason off some high principle, what a sick country, i am sure the germans have some genetic defect !(just look at their collective angst of the atom power ,its absurd, in japan there is a problem and in germany they kill all atomic enegry plant and go back to windmills ,how insane is that ? hey but they do it on principle, they will rather die then give up their ..principles) hey but now i am again in south europe, i finally can see your suggestive video of lady gaga. (and of course any other video i want to see because here there is no gemma, yippie,)
of course she is one of my favourite dada´s around
and just dance is exaxtly the teaching we apply .: )
in any case dont worry , even if you do not understand dzog chen and hold onto your ..tongpooo, it doesn´t matter to us.....since all is perfect even the gelugs and the catholics and the gays ,whores, butchers and the mad rest........its all perfect so just dance yeah thats some sane advise i agree completly and we do it too ...oh i mentioned that already , didn´t i ?
in any case i know you noticed :you cant think your way out of here but the good news is : thats also not necessary at all because ....well no need to go anywhere since you are already here and nobody ever can be or is ever anywhere else but here and thats fine since its perfect
as it is
so best is .....just dance . and enjoy
lady gaga has got the message as well.: ))
and thanks for that video i really needed to see that again : )