This dude also deserves a thread, a postmetaphysical visionary of an integral paradigm different from the trademarked variety. And quite "spiritual" to boot, if by that we mean creating a more equitable and humane lifeworld in which all can thrive and aspire to their highest potentials. From the integral capitalism thread:


Have you discussed Jeremy Rifkin's notion of "distributed capitalism," based on emergent peer-to-peer technological models, which he discussed in his book, The Empathic Civilization?  I skimmed the thread and didn't see mention of it, so I thought I'd add it to the mix.  Here's a brief article on it.

(An interesting notion of his, which is not directly relevant to this thread but possibly relevant to this forum, is Rifkin's notion of an emergent "dramaturgical self" as a stage of self-making beyond the "existential postmodern self."  I haven't explored it in depth -- I've just been reviewing his book for a class -- but I'll look into it more and will comment further if it's relevant.)


Thanks for these links. I've heard of Rifkin but have yet to read him. I agree with most of what he's saying but he is stretching the definition of the term capitalism beyond its intended meaning. Recall its meaning from the beginning of the thread. Private ownership of the means of production with profit flowing to the top is antithetical to shared, open and distributed ownership of resources and information and P2P relationships, much like selfish concern and cosmocentric morality are so in a moral hierarchy. Rifkin is right to make the connection between the worldview and economic-communication systems, and that the internet correlates with an empathatic, biospheric view necessary for such shared resources and environmental consciousness. But again, capitalism was all about the exploitation of natural resources as if they were infinite with little to no regard for the environmental consequences. Rifkin laments this destruction and rightly analyzes the consciousness and systems that created it, capitalism, yet by keeping that name in his new view of P2P distribution is a functional misfit.

One can also view him speak on his new book at YouTube. Just watching the first couple minutes it seems to be the same info in the text linked above.


I also had posted this video on his work here on IPS awhile back.


Now I understand hybrid systems during transition phases. For example we have hybrid gas-electric cars which are better than just gas-driven. But we know that it is a transition to a full electric car when we develop the technology and infrastructure to make it feasible. That is, we know we must completely leave behind using a limited resource like petrol for a more sustainable energy source. So with economic systems. There are hybrids of capitalism with open source and of course it is a step in the right direction. But like with petrol we know that at some point we will leave capitalism behind in a more equitable, humane and environmental consciousness with correlative political economy.


So for me it says something about our consciousness to which economic system we attach. Given the I-I agenda of a kinder, gentler capitalism it appears to be on the transition of rational-pluralistic and it calls that integral. Hence you get no language or values about open source, distributed networks or P2P. Whereas I think what Rifkin is describing, that ecologic empathy that is growing out of the informational-pluralistic into the internet P2P network, is what we might call integral. And it is open source, not private property. But again, it is currently a hybrid in transition but we know where it is going and what must be left behind.*


*As to worldview and moral level replacement, see the previous thread on ladder-climber-view. Like I said, I don't think it's a strict or clean dividing line between one level and the next, with transitions containing mixes and hybrids. But we see the trajectory of where it's going and what it will eventually leave behind.

You can find Rifkin's website here. Following is an excerpt from the synopsis on his lecture "The age of access":

"The new information and telecommunications technologies, e-commerce and globalization are making possible a new economic era as different from market capitalism as the latter is dissimilar from mercantilism. In the new century, markets are slowly giving way to network ways of conducting business, with far-reaching implications for the future of society....The notion of exchanging and holding on to fixed property becomes an anachronism in a society where everything is continually evolving."

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And like I noted in that thread, kennilingus grounds the entire shebang in metaphysical Spirit, much like he does with kosmic addressing. I said:

"Wilber's statement from his “Do critics” article:

'With reference to de Quincey's numbering scheme, we could call it Intersubjectivity-3, namely: the agency of all holons opens directly, immediately, onto Spirit itself, and thus all holons share a deep, nonmediated, nonlocal, profound intersubjectivity due to the fact that all holons immediately touch each other via the Spirit that each of them fully is. This 'ultimate' meaning of intersubjectivity is for me the primary meaning, and I believe that all of the other forms of intersubjectivity issue forth from this all-pervading Ground.''

"This unmediated ground is a metaphysical philosophy of consciousness par excellence that partakes of exactly the type of dualistic subject-object, absolute-relative foundationalism that Mead and Habermas critique so adamantly. And it's at the heart of why Wilber tries to fit his otherwise many other fluid, round pegs into the contricting square boxes of his 4-quadrants, thereby distorting them in the process."

I now return you to the regularly scheduled program.

So very disturbing facts from Rifkin. Here is part 2  and part 3 on what to do. Use your 3rd revolution tech to distribute the urgency and necessity of new energy development before it is literally too late.
And remember, the correlative, evolutionary consciousness in all this is distributed P2P, the better turquoise, integral enaction. In terms of spirituality, it is more akin to this type in the polydoxy thread and better than the kennilinguist variety in this thread.
I can't access the Rifkin links right now from this computer, so I will wait till I get home to read them, but I'm glad you've referenced Polydoxy in your second post.  I downloaded a sample copy of that text on my Nook and have been reading it, and was actually thinking of that (as contrast) when I posted my thread on Gafni (especially when I referenced better ways to move beyond ethnocentric religious orientations than creating a new, all-encompassing, monolithic religion).  I'll take up these themes on the respective threads.  In the meantime, if you wouldn't mind, could you copy bits of the text from the Rifkin links here, or give a brief summary of what he's talking about?

It's all the same as what's already posted above in the thread.* The links are to You Tube interview. The only difference with previous posts above is that part 1 goes into the seriousness of the accelerating global climate crisis.

* Like turning each building into a mini-energy and storage facility and sharing it on a smart grid.

Okay, thank you.  I'll watch it when I get home.  Concerning climate change, this recent headline caught my attention, and raised my anxiety, this week.
And even more disconcerting is the many conservatives who don't believe it, as if it's just a matter of subjective and liberal ideological opinion. Hence no action whatsoever to change the situation. And they control the fricken congress!

I read Rifkin's book on Cattle Culture and incorporated some of his ideas into my lectures (when I did such things) on "Aryan" and Vedic culture. I was veg at the time, but an aesthetic veg, not an ethical veg.

One point he makes is that growing steers is not a very economical way to make food.

Ed: "Use your 3rd revolution tech to distribute the urgency and necessity of new energy development before it is literally too late."


I agree. I'm still hopefully these guys, that Dawid pointed me toward several years ago now, will come up with something remarkable hopefully in the not too distant future. Maybe they have done so already?

Oh and these guys seem to be on to something too.

Long live the Energy Revolution!

One point he makes is that growing steers is not a very economical way to make food.

Not only economical but the environmental impact is humongus. In the videos, if I remember correctly (and I don't much these days), raising cattle for food is the 3rd highest cause of greenhouse gas production.

Rifkin's warnings about certain unexpectedly rapid climate change events, and their likely consequences, are disturbing.  His expectations are not as dire as Lovelock's, but still sobering -- and depressing.  Here are two other views on climate change and human civilization, the first offering (like Rifkin) suggestions for a way forward (beyond capitalism) and the second offering no real way out, except maybe to retreat to a few safe haven spots likely to remain liveable.


The Bridge at the End of the World


The Vanishing Face of Gaia


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What paths lie ahead for religion and spirituality in the 21st Century? How might the insights of modernity and post-modernity impact and inform humanity's ancient wisdom traditions? How are we to enact, together, new spiritual visions – independently, or within our respective traditions – that can respond adequately to the challenges of our times?

This group is for anyone interested in exploring these questions and tracing out the horizons of an integral post-metaphysical spirituality.

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