What's Up with Stuart Davis?

[DavidM58]

Perhaps someone can help me out by explaining either the appeal or the contribution of Stuart Davis to the integral community.

I guess I'm curious, but not curious to actually check him out myself. I've never been attracted to click on the Stuart Davis links that come regularly from Integral Life.  I have a slow internet connection, so I have to be really committed to watch a video (streaming doesn't work well, and I basically have to commit to a long download).

I don't have an informed judgement, but he comes across to me as a caricature of the stereotypical "outrageous" rock-n-roll personality or shock jock. It seems to not be about the music, but about the personality, and entertainment that appeals to base instincts and faux hipness.   

So what's up with this? I'm guessing there's some kind of "integral" message buried in here somewhere? Is he considered the "late night" Jeff Salzman? And where does "God" come in to all of this?

[Ambo Suno]

Hi David - though I get that he is pushing boundaries and edges, and though I know that pushing limits often is a part of humor, most of the time I don't feel attracted to his humor. I think it is sometimes an aesthetic angle that he works that doesn't feel so good to me. Also, I think he is more contemporary/youth oriented than the inner world I seem to inhabit.

However, I am thinking of one excellent-to-me piece he did on being human. Funny, poignant, beautiful, integral. But tell me what you think, eh.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8m_hoCnzHw

[andrew]

Cheers Brotha's! 

Well, he obviously has talent up the ying/yang and ambition to boot, but that is not my concern here . i'd rather flesh out his religious perspectives . Firstly, though, a note on the vid Ambo posted : I still consider one of the many E.T. conspiracy theories to be possible and in that light i found this particular vid a tad creepy . 

Firstly , according to this vid he speculates metaphysics that supposes he is/was god before he was born . Okay, but shouldn't extraordinary claims be supported by extraordinary evidence? Philosophically, I don't have a problem with that per se ; but I wouldn't call that perspective post-metaphysical , it seems to me metaphysical to the core in the religious sense . I guess I have to wonder if this god is personal on life off this earth; perhaps on a extra-dimensional Loka ? That at least seems exciting to me and hints at panentheism ; but if that is not the case then it seems Stuart is advocating spiritual pantheism; that everything is non-personal in the ocean/wave sense ( still religiously metaphysical )  And to me if that is the case i've always had the Miles outlook on it- So What ! I think spiritual atheism of the post-metaphysical kind is more compelling compared to that position . And here we may be getting into the integral Schism . Myself, I tend to lean towards Integral Non-Dual Panentheism which asserts that there is nothing that God isn't ( I the Lord do ALL these things ) it brings the evil and the good. That everything that is happening is because God is willing it to happen. In that sense I don't get too bent out of shape about things and the horrors among us . Having said that , I still hold a compatabilist position on free-will ; albeit a very limited free-will . 

I think also a part of this discussion might be about evidence and proof of claims . At this point in history I see zero evidence of any supernaturalism  anywhere per se . Everything I see today can be explained naturally as far as I can tell ( and yes, life is a miracle ) but that is not what I am getting at . To me this doesn't mean God doesn't exist ; but rather , IMO , God in this aeon/age has 'receded' ..There may be intermittent 'interventions' to certain individuals but in general no cart blanche 'showings' . And that is a good thing for people like Jim Bakker who at one moment in history would have been struck dead . So, Jesus is not the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow . 

[Ambo Suno]

Hey, brah - as I down regulate myself and translate your critique, I hear it as, 'SD shouldn't have been so casual,' because some people will hear and see this and interpret it in seriousness.

I experienced this predominantly as entertaining play. Perhaps, as you say, this reflects some of his predominant world-view. And maybe this resonates with, is adjacent to, vibes with my own sketchy spiritual-existential world-view - I'm not sure quite how or how much.

I think your felt-conclusion that he "advocates" is a little strong, and this legitimately shows the seriousness of this theme to you - well enough, noble mon. Correct me, if I misspoke.

You incidentally bring me to wonder if he or you were to make a somewhat comparable video reflecting your take of life and kosmos, with the nuance, culturo-psychospiritual sophistication, the playfulness that I feel in Stuart's, whether I might not get as much lift from yours. I'm thinking I would, or close to it.

Regardless, I'm sure that if we wanted to drill through this video in the way you do here, your critique points/raised questions are plenty valid. Sure.

This video of his I still find quite lovely after watching it five or so times, and I feel a smile on my face and in my belly now, as I type, as I think of it. Very cool to my aesthetics and most of the rest.

Gooday, Brudda.



andrew said:

Cheers Brotha's! 

Well, he obviously has talent up the ying/yang and ambition to boot, but that is not my concern here . i'd rather flesh out his religious perspectives . Firstly, though, a note on the vid Ambo posted : I still consider one of the many E.T. conspiracy theories to be possible and in that light i found this particular vid a tad creepy . 

Firstly , according to this vid he speculates metaphysics that supposes he is/was god before he was born . Okay, but shouldn't extraordinary claims be supported by extraordinary evidence? Philosophically, I don't have a problem with that per se ; but I wouldn't call that perspective post-metaphysical , it seems to me metaphysical to the core in the religious sense . I guess I have to wonder if this god is personal on life off this earth; perhaps on a extra-dimensional Loka ? That at least seems exciting to me and hints at panentheism ; but if that is not the case then it seems Stuart is advocating spiritual pantheism; that everything is non-personal in the ocean/wave sense ( still religiously metaphysical )  And to me if that is the case i've always had the Miles outlook on it- So What ! I think spiritual atheism of the post-metaphysical kind is more compelling compared to that position . And here we may be getting into the integral Schism . Myself, I tend to lean towards Integral Non-Dual Panentheism which asserts that there is nothing that God isn't ( I the Lord do ALL these things ) it brings the evil and the good. That everything that is happening is because God is willing it to happen. In that sense I don't get too bent out of shape about things and the horrors among us . Having said that , I still hold a compatabilist position on free-will ; albeit a very limited free-will . 

I think also a part of this discussion might be about evidence and proof of claims . At this point in history I see zero evidence of any supernaturalism  anywhere per se . Everything I see today can be explained naturally as far as I can tell ( and yes, life is a miracle ) but that is not what I am getting at . To me this doesn't mean God doesn't exist ; but rather , IMO , God in this aeon/age has 'receded' ..There may be intermittent 'interventions' to certain individuals but in general no cart blanche 'showings' . And that is a good thing for people like Jim Bakker who at one moment in history would have been struck dead . So, Jesus is not the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow . 

[andrew]

Hey Ambo , i loved this , " vibes with my own sketchy spiritual-existential world-view." Oh yes, i am very sympathetic to religion without religion and spirituality without the need for assholons :) I hope i was clear in the beginning of my post that the guy is obviously quite talented and the quality and aesthetic of the vid is quite good . That wasn't the avenue I took, though, in my analysis . 

[DavidM58]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. I should have expected that by asking the question, I would be asked to watch one of his videos. I'll check it out when I can. 

[andrew]

Hey Ambo, I just wanted to make sure you knew that it is only that particular vid that doesn't really do it for me . I've come across other stuff of his over the last decade that I liked much more . To be clear bro., tru 'nough, I can't write a sentence to save my soul; but I have taken the time to read . I've done my time with Camus; Sartre: Nietzsche; Hemingway ; Hesse; and many of the great existential writers of the last century. I've also had my fair share of experiences starring into the abyss and feeling the ice tingled horror . It's not that I don't get it ; it may be I did a little more than average of certain substances and have a part of my brain indelibly tattoo'd THEO ! lol

Anyway, I uploaded another song from another band I was in here : 

https://soundcloud.com/user579546520

I've decided to archive for posterity. Another 100 uploads to go :)

[andrew]

Hey Ed., just saw Lady Gaga in American Horror! I've got to concede i never really got what you were on about there . I get it now :)

[Ambo Suno]

Hi, Andrew - good to hear more about your sense of Stuart's work - yeah.
Some of his stuff has seemed too...somethings, but Becoming Human touched me as masterpieceish. Go figure our complexly derived, very particulars-dependent tastes, eh



andrew said:

Hey Ambo, I just wanted to make sure you knew that it is only that particular vid that doesn't really do it for me . I've come across other stuff of his over the last decade that I liked much more . To be clear bro., tru 'nough, I can't write a sentence to save my soul; but I have taken the time to read . I've done my time with Camus; Sartre: Nietzsche; Hemingway ; Hesse; and many of the great existential writers of the last century. I've also had my fair share of experiences starring into the abyss and feeling the ice tingled horror . It's not that I don't get it ; it may be I did a little more than average of certain substances and have a part of my brain indelibly tattoo'd THEO ! lol

Anyway, I uploaded another song from another band I was in here : 

https://soundcloud.com/user579546520

I've decided to archive for posterity. Another 100 uploads to go :)

[Balder]

Much of what Stuart Davis does is not my "style" and doesn't attract me, but I recall a few of his videos that stood out as really well done (and I'm a fan of his crow art and his constructed language, geeky con-langer that I am).  Since the early days of Integral Naked, I've noticed a lot of the content, not just Stuart Davis', was aiming at a younger demographic than mine ...