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Comment by andrew on April 14, 2014 at 11:55pm

What i mean by that last remark is that i am quite comfortable being an atheist if god doesn't exist. 

Comment by andrew on April 14, 2014 at 11:40pm

Being a tad fecitious there Bruce. I like Sanguin, went to a New Years Eve sermon a few years back at a church on Burrard. Sitting through it though, couldn't help but think the high priests of Vancouver culture ( the real estate developers) would just love to get their greasy little hands on that half acre property. The point being, this message simply does not resonate with me. I find it deifying and reifying the time/space aspect of the cosmos ( evolutionary process) and abandoning the whole point of Christianity: A God who loves us. I think this conversation works better within Hinduism where these concepts are actually a part of their stories. Wilber deifies and reifies evolution, too, and i think that Visser is right when he calls him on it. It may be that these guys need Christianity without god. I don't.

Comment by Balder on April 14, 2014 at 9:25pm

Hmm, what gave you the impression that "these guys can't see the Bible isn't a science or history book"? 

Comment by andrew on April 14, 2014 at 8:30pm

How many times did they say the word evolution! lol Here is the problem that i see with this: evolution doesn't need spirit to explain how it works. Science doesn't need spirit to explain how things work. Dawkin's is quite correct here; the methods they use explain things quite adequately. What science will never be able to do is find god in the processes . There is no instrument subtle enough to measure this. So, the question then becomes one of faith and not one of fetishizing evolution. Where i have issue with Dawkin's is when is says that he is not intelligent; that natural selection is not intelligent; that a virus isn't  intelligent; that the earth is not intelligent; that the movement of the galaxies are not intelligent. That nothing is  intelligent, basically. Strange belief that one! Got news for you Richard: you are intelligent!

On the other side of the fence i don't understand why these guys can't see that the Bible is not a science or history book. It's a book of fables, myths , parables, etc.  etc. .

Now perhaps these guys are arguing for panentheism and an involution evolution explanation of the universe? But that is Hinduism and not Christianity. There is an implied dualism in western theism although i personally believe that that dualism does get transcended at the deepest levels of reality within an alternative Christian metaphysics. (hint hint -see my Noah thread).