"That paints a very beautiful picture David. It would be great to live in such a community. Note however how that works on the micro scale, where all participate voluntarily, and never the macro scale, where all are compelled to participate? there…"
"Yes I am saying there are objective universal ethical principles that that define the LR quadrant of AQAL. Just as there are objective universal scientific principles that define the UR quadrant of AQAL.
I didn't think there was any controversy…"
Yes integral can be co-opted, and an integral state could come about. However I think the result would be very very bad. At best it would be a sort of soft-tyranny, an integral dystopia. At worst it would be the end of us. If you can imagine…"
"@Balder & theurj: I think theurj (please correct me if I am mistaken), when he hears metaphysics of presence, may simply be responding to the “initiation of force” concept, and particularly the “initiation” piece of that…"
"Somehow the rest of my post was cut off... late night, sorry for the double post as well.
continued from above:
As to the previous much more coherent points by andrew; starting with your "general observations," which appear to be various…"
"@theurj: I'm sorry to have offended you but I was trying to give you a genuine response to what appeared to me to be a complete dismissal of my argument. Rather than respond directly you first declared that you were beyond what you called…"
This is a great question. I would say that protective use of force at some level in the two cases you mention is justified--with a caveat. In this case a unilateral tax (like from a government) would not be the moral/just way to solve this…"
"Wow! This thread is certainly active! This is great stuff.
It is attempts to initiate a non-voluntary exchange which I argue are moral/ethically evil (again, excluding non-voluntary exchanges that are in response to another prior initiation…"
1. Yes, I believe so.
2. It is very likely in my opinion, but I have no first hand knowledge. I can only speculate what happens behind closed doors and in smoke filled rooms... ;)
3. Not following you at all here... sorry."
"Thanks David. Firstly force comes in two general flavors.
1. Direct Physical Force; as in one actor physically violating another actor, or compelling another to take some action through physical violence.
2. Indirect Force; as in one actor compels…"
"Hello, and thank you for making room for me on this forum. This is a topic that is very important to me. If you have not read my articles on Integral World, please do, as most of the basis of what I will argue here is already there.
What paths lie ahead for religion and spirituality in the 21st Century? How might the insights of modernity and post-modernity impact and inform humanity's ancient wisdom traditions? How are we to enact, together, new spiritual visions – independently, or within our respective traditions – that can respond adequately to the challenges of our times?
This group is for anyone interested in exploring these questions and tracing out the horizons of an integral post-metaphysical spirituality.
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