Honestly I don't understand the technical jargon. And to clarify, I said that the zero state is not a return to the original pre-reflective awareness but an integration of that awareness with the later ego. In fact I found some "evidence" to this effect from Caprilles in one of the threads but cannot locate it at the moment. I'll look for it, maybe in the transpersonal psychology threaed?
I found it at this link. It's taken from Elias Capriles in “Beyond Mind II,” The International Journal of Transpersonal Studies, 2006, Volume 25, pp. 1 - 44. He said:
"It is true that the ego emerges from an original dynamic, creative, spontaneous source—which here I am calling Dzogchen qua Base—from which it then becomes estranged. However, it is also important to emphasize the following facts: (1) that the source in question is the trikaya qua Base; (2) that in spite of the fact that, as underlined in the Chuang Tzu, the condition of the child is in many ways similar to Awakening, it is radically different from Awakening in that it does not at all involve the reGnition (of ) the trikaya qua Base and does not even involve the capacity to deal with reality effectively; (3) that though the ego emerges from this source, the latter is not and cannot be reGnized in infancy before the arising of the ego, but on the contrary, can only be reGnized after the ego has been fully developed and, having become ripe, it is ready to fall from the tree of the internalized family and dissolve (and, in fact, among the few who obtain this reGnition, the great bulk do so as adults); (4) that despite the fact that realization involves going back to the source, this “going back,” rather than consisting in a going back to the unreGnized manifestation of Dzogchen qua Base, corresponds to the reGnition of this condition, which in samsaric beings is an unprecedented, wholly new occurrence" (19).
Hi, Lol, nice to "friend" again! Concerning the Vulnerability thread, I believe Tom deleted it right before he left the group. Tom and Mascha both have left IPS.
If you'd like to talk about this, or about the thread itself, yes, I'd be open to that.
Edward theurj Berge
Mar 23, 2010
Edward theurj Berge
"It is true that the ego emerges from an original dynamic, creative, spontaneous source—which here I am calling Dzogchen qua Base—from which it then becomes estranged. However, it is also important to emphasize the following facts: (1) that the source in question is the trikaya qua Base; (2) that in spite of the fact that, as underlined in the Chuang Tzu, the condition of the child is in many ways similar to Awakening, it is radically different from Awakening in that it does not at all involve the reGnition (of ) the trikaya qua Base and does not even involve the capacity to deal with reality effectively; (3) that though the ego emerges from this source, the latter is not and cannot be reGnized in infancy before the arising of the ego, but on the contrary, can only be reGnized after the ego has been fully developed and, having become ripe, it is ready to fall from the tree of the internalized family and dissolve (and, in fact, among the few who obtain this reGnition, the great bulk do so as adults); (4) that despite the fact that realization involves going back to the source, this “going back,” rather than consisting in a going back to the unreGnized manifestation of Dzogchen qua Base, corresponds to the reGnition of this condition, which in samsaric beings is an unprecedented, wholly new occurrence" (19).
Mar 23, 2010
Balder
If you'd like to talk about this, or about the thread itself, yes, I'd be open to that.
Best wishes,
B.
Mar 24, 2010
Steven Nickeson
Thanks for the invite and the note. I've been deleted before and it looks like I'm still on my feet.
Mar 24, 2010
Edward theurj Berge
Mar 24, 2010
Edward theurj Berge
Mar 24, 2010