Roy Bhaskar and Meta-Reality - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T14:49:16Zhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/roy-bhaskar-and-meta-reality?id=5301756%3ATopic%3A23308&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI just received the sad news…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-11-20:5301756:Comment:591832014-11-20T16:06:59.432ZBalderhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>I just received the sad news that Roy Bhaskar passed away last night.</p>
<p>I just received the sad news that Roy Bhaskar passed away last night.</p> On the one side, I find he le…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-09:5301756:Comment:560762014-05-09T18:36:54.403ZBalderhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>On the one side, I find he leans too much in the direction of a Romantic/perennial "original (nondual) goodness" (where our fulfillment consists primarily of getting rid of ego obscuration), and in that sense I'm still cricital of his model. I think Levin could help him frame that in a better, more postmetaphysical sense -- which still recognizes a primal condition to be recovered, but not in this Romantic way. On the other side, as I got to know his concept of the cosmic envelope better,…</p>
<p>On the one side, I find he leans too much in the direction of a Romantic/perennial "original (nondual) goodness" (where our fulfillment consists primarily of getting rid of ego obscuration), and in that sense I'm still cricital of his model. I think Levin could help him frame that in a better, more postmetaphysical sense -- which still recognizes a primal condition to be recovered, but not in this Romantic way. On the other side, as I got to know his concept of the cosmic envelope better, I found it subtler than the summaries of his model I read convey -- more participatorily framed, more amenable to a postmetaphysical interpretation than I first suspected.</p> How have you revised your vie…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-09:5301756:Comment:559692014-05-09T18:09:06.651ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>How have you revised your views on his dualistic nondualism?</p>
<p>How have you revised your views on his dualistic nondualism?</p> Yes, I look forward to it, an…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-09:5301756:Comment:562492014-05-09T17:52:14.068ZBalderhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>Yes, I look forward to it, and I'll be sure to give a full report. The plan for the post-conference symposium I'll be attending is for each of us to present on another's paper, and then all of us to offer each otehr feedback on each others' papers, to help refine our respective contributions to the forthcoming "MetaTheory for the 21st Century" anthology. The paper I'll be presenting is the same one you read a few months ago. In it, I did not take up the question of the "dualism" of…</p>
<p>Yes, I look forward to it, and I'll be sure to give a full report. The plan for the post-conference symposium I'll be attending is for each of us to present on another's paper, and then all of us to offer each otehr feedback on each others' papers, to help refine our respective contributions to the forthcoming "MetaTheory for the 21st Century" anthology. The paper I'll be presenting is the same one you read a few months ago. In it, I did not take up the question of the "dualism" of Bhaskar's approach to nonduality, in part because I've revised my views on that the more I got to understand his model, and in part because I was focusing more on other topics. But I'm planning to bring up this topic for discussion at some point during the conference or symposium.</p> Balder: "Overall I find his p…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-09:5301756:Comment:560752014-05-09T16:45:58.919ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Balder: "Overall I find his presentation of nonduality to be rather dualistic."</p>
<p>Did you address this in your paper?</p>
<p>Balder: "Overall I find his presentation of nonduality to be rather dualistic."</p>
<p>Did you address this in your paper?</p> Congrats. Give us a report on…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-09:5301756:Comment:562482014-05-09T16:43:49.347ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Congrats. Give us a report on the conference and your UK trip. Like who you met, any interesting conversations, how your paper was received, if any others there are trying to bridge CR and IT, etc.</p>
<p>Congrats. Give us a report on the conference and your UK trip. Like who you met, any interesting conversations, how your paper was received, if any others there are trying to bridge CR and IT, etc.</p> I just got word that my paper…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-05-08:5301756:Comment:559672014-05-08T17:33:37.859ZBalderhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>I just got word that my paper proposal for the international Critical Realism conference has been accepted, so it looks like I'll be presenting it in the UK this summer.</p>
<p>I just got word that my paper proposal for the international Critical Realism conference has been accepted, so it looks like I'll be presenting it in the UK this summer.</p> Bhaskar was interviewed at th…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-01-21:5301756:Comment:538322014-01-21T02:45:55.549ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Bhaskar was interviewed at the recent ITC per <a href="http://integralleadershipreview.com/ilr_videos/roy-bhaskar-interview/" target="_blank">this ILR article</a>. Video below.</p>
<p><iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8YGHZPg-19k?feature=player_embedded&wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p>
<p>Bhaskar was interviewed at the recent ITC per <a href="http://integralleadershipreview.com/ilr_videos/roy-bhaskar-interview/" target="_blank">this ILR article</a>. Video below.</p>
<p><iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8YGHZPg-19k?feature=player_embedded&wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p> The following (linked) docume…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-25:5301756:Comment:531252013-11-25T20:13:05.140ZBalderhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>The following (linked) document includes Bhaskar's discussion of "three ways nonduality underpins the ordinary world of duality," beginning on page xi. I appreciate his focus on the "nonduality of ordinary experience," but overall I find his presentation of nonduality to be rather dualistic.</p>
<p><a href="http://internationalcentreforcriticalrealism.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/10-bhaskar-fse-vi-xv1.pdf" target="_blank">Preface to "From Science to Emancipation"</a></p>
<p>The following (linked) document includes Bhaskar's discussion of "three ways nonduality underpins the ordinary world of duality," beginning on page xi. I appreciate his focus on the "nonduality of ordinary experience," but overall I find his presentation of nonduality to be rather dualistic.</p>
<p><a href="http://internationalcentreforcriticalrealism.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/10-bhaskar-fse-vi-xv1.pdf" target="_blank">Preface to "From Science to Emancipation"</a></p> Recall this post and the 2 fo…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-12-21:5301756:Comment:447082012-12-21T17:45:33.934ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Recall <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/object-oriented-ontology?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A40733">this post</a> and the 2 following from the OOO thread. The second has a link to a chapter in <i>Meta-Reality</i>.</p>
<p>Reply by <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=7f6xnc41jqfr">theurj</a> on May 10, 2012 at 9:17am</p>
<p>At the end of Brant's …</p>
<p>Recall <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/object-oriented-ontology?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A40733">this post</a> and the 2 following from the OOO thread. The second has a link to a chapter in <i>Meta-Reality</i>.</p>
<p>Reply by <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=7f6xnc41jqfr">theurj</a> on May 10, 2012 at 9:17am</p>
<p>At the end of Brant's <a href="http://larvalsubjects.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/worries-about-materialism-a-response-to-a-friend/#comments" target="_blank">post on materialism</a> I asked him about Bhaskar's turn to meta-reality, and how this might or not relate to his onticology. He merely responded with a short clip from a <a href="http://larvalsubjects.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/hominid-ecology/" target="_blank">more recent post</a> on hominid ecology, basically implying (I guess?) that Bhaskar's new stuff sees nature and culture operating as two completely different paradigms, and that the former is "governed entirely by brute matter (a now outmoded conception of matter) and mechanical causality (an outmoded notion of causality)."</p>
<p>Reply by <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=7f6xnc41jqfr">theurj</a> on May 10, 2012 at 9:58am</p>
<p>In <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/85504907/Bhaskar-RMR-Ch4-All" target="_blank">this chapter</a> of <em>Reflections on Meta-Reality</em> I haven't yet seen the above treatment of matter as brute, but I'm only skimming at this point. However I find this interesting:</p>
<p>"The retreat from content into pure form results in a mode of consciousness that can only be characterized by formulae as sat-chit-anand--blissful consciousness of existence (or being or truth). This is that transcendental consciousness of the ground-state, at a level of supra-mental consciousness, awareness without thought or mental (or emotional) content, which underpins all other levels of consciousness" (212).</p>
<p>Apparently it is this causal state only that is non-dual. Just like we've explored in the Batchelor thread, this sets up a duality with the conceptual and/or relative state. The relative state is criticized for its duality, while not seeing that setting up a pure nondual state in opposition to the dual/relative is itself a duality. The causal and relative are not mutually entailing: the causal is origin of the relative.</p>
<p>Reply by <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=7f6xnc41jqfr">theurj</a> on May 10, 2012 at 4:49pm</p>
<p>This is interesting, Bhaskar speaking from <em><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=9OyaPK0sEqgC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=roy+bhaskar+matter&source=bl&ots=0Im7B43K0A&sig=RyP0qY9axrQpQOiwN1krWWnuSNU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0kKsT-jYF66CsALgxO3wAw&ved=0CFUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=roy%20bhaskar%20matter&f=false" target="_blank">The Formation of Critical Realism</a></em> (Taylor & Francis, 2009):</p>
<p>"All matter has consciousness enfolded in it. But the converse does not apply.... We have a view of matter evolving through time-space into a point where it becomes conscious and we have paradigms of consciousness without matter enfolded in it. But having evolved from matter, consciousness does not need to go back to matter. It is not the case that all consciousness has matter enfolded within it: some consciousness might have, but most of what we call high consciousness does not.... You can make sense of this by thinking of an evolution where matter becomes more and more self-aware and when it gets to a certain point of self-awareness you do not actually need to go back to the level of brute, inanimate matter.... At a certain threshold of evolution, you have consciousness without matter: consciousness that is no longer tied to matter" (186).</p>