Do our models get in the way? - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T10:13:54Zhttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/do-our-models-get-in-the-way?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A77108&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSome excerpts from this essay…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-09-18:5301756:Comment:771372019-09-18T14:13:55.379ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Some excerpts from <a href="https://medium.com/rebel-wisdom/an-intellectual-deep-web-aa7e60ef942a">this</a> essay on the topic follow consistent with this thread and an IPS more generally.<br></br> <br></br> <span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">"Being merely ‘intellectual’ or ‘dark’ won’t work. One also has to also be deep. How to be deep instead of merely intellectual?"<br></br><br></br>"Mysticism and metaphysics are either fetishised by the new age or dismissed by the new atheist. Generally new atheists…</span></span></p>
<p>Some excerpts from <a href="https://medium.com/rebel-wisdom/an-intellectual-deep-web-aa7e60ef942a">this</a> essay on the topic follow consistent with this thread and an IPS more generally.<br/> <br/> <span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">"Being merely ‘intellectual’ or ‘dark’ won’t work. One also has to also be deep. How to be deep instead of merely intellectual?"<br/><br/>"Mysticism and metaphysics are either fetishised by the new age or dismissed by the new atheist. Generally new atheists privilege the brain and new-agers the heart—the latter is largely contemptuous of reason, the former rejects spiritual phenomenology. Spiritual types are always telling us to ‘get out of our heads’— hard nosed rationalists tell us that only ‘faith’ in human reason can save us. However, these two views in isolation leave us dangerously lopsided. We need to find a middle way—which is actually not a path of compromise, but the difficult work of not falling into monological world views."<br/><br/>"Both science and soul, empiricism and deep intuition — the perspectives of the left and the right hemispheres of the brain — need to be honoured, as Iain McGilchrist has so eloquently written about in his book The Master and his Emissary. The beauty of the rational mind is the gift of articulation; however, it has a dark side. To ‘ration’ literally means to separate or divide. Without the deeper, intuitive mind, the rational mind gives us fragments instead of a living landscape. McGilchrist’s distinction between reason and rationality is helpful here. Reason has a holistic, integrative perspective, whereas rationality can be reductive."</span></span><br/> <a name="more" id="more"></a><br/> "Discrimination, judgment, and thinking should not be reduced to mere conceptual games; in the same way, compassion and care, without discriminating wisdom and judgement fall into the worst kinds of errors—what the buddhist calls ‘idiot compassion’. The point is: we need to re-connect the intellect to those deep realms of feeling and embodied experience or risk becoming disembodied talking machines or hysterical drama queens."<br/> <br/> "Today we have a reductionist view of the body and the brain: we are obsessed with the physical body but don’t understand what has been called the subtle or spiritual body. Actually meditation, yoga, and the various spiritual gymnastics are not merely techniques for acquiring a healthy body, nor are they particularly about developing ‘inner calm’ or psychological well-being. Spiritual practices were once adventurous and/or dangerous ways to cultivate the spirit and embody meaning (Yoga literally means to yoke oneself to the divine)."</p> Even the prefix 'meta' in the…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-31:5301756:Comment:773072019-08-31T13:40:20.093ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Even the prefix 'meta' in the context of MM means above and beyond, like into the wild blue yonder. It's a subject that analyzes another subject from a higher, more abstract level, transcending it. It's another version of the transcend and include meta</span><span>phor, subsuming its lower subject within its matrix, lording over it from above. It's very consistent with the notions above about a savior from on high.<br></br><br></br>Then there's the…</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Even the prefix 'meta' in the context of MM means above and beyond, like into the wild blue yonder. It's a subject that analyzes another subject from a higher, more abstract level, transcending it. It's another version of the transcend and include meta</span><span>phor, subsuming its lower subject within its matrix, lording over it from above. It's very consistent with the notions above about a savior from on high.<br/><br/>Then there's the suffix 'ism' meaning a doctrine, theory or system. MM is a system that is beyond and above the modern system, including but transcending it. So I'm wondering if we are really to go to the metaphorical next level, so to speak, if we really need to step outside of these frames of doctrines that save us from above and beyond like the deus ex machina, itself a worldview holdover from both the religious and modern worldviews? Even the MM (and integral) buzzwords 'hierarchy' and 'complexity' mean rule from an abstract above and beyond.<br/><br/>It's one reason I prefer the prefix 'syn,' meaning with or together, and its corollary 'syntegral,' more akin with the collaborative commons. It shows how together we commoners enact a way of thinking, being and doing without need of metaisms. It too is a metanarrative in the sense of an overall, cohering story, but one that synscends, blends, braids its various elements, creating a different sort of part/whole inter(en)action, a new and hybrid flavor, one that comes from our shared commons instead of a savior elite above and beyond us. The era of the deus ex machina is over. It's time for new expressions compatible with the emerging story. The era of hier(an)archical synplexity has arrived. And it lives in the relational tensegrity between its twin stars Syn City and Multipli City.</span></span></span></p> Here's an interview with a co…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-31:5301756:Comment:770032019-08-31T13:39:39.013ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><a href="http://www.whatisemerging.com/updates/metamodern-art-series-pt-2-i-want-to-believe-metamodernism-and-spirituality-in-kyiv-a-conversation-with-alexandra-and-alexander-krolikowski?fbclid=IwAR2xwIxIBlIR3ITM_64WkduJSVNm8jdIQ8Vs0fr1RYuuVXzN4gdUVICCzKc" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Here</a>'s an interview with a couple of artists involved in the upcoming Metamodern Art Festival in Kiev. A common theme about the definition of metamodernism is a return to an overall meta-narrative, that…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whatisemerging.com/updates/metamodern-art-series-pt-2-i-want-to-believe-metamodernism-and-spirituality-in-kyiv-a-conversation-with-alexandra-and-alexander-krolikowski?fbclid=IwAR2xwIxIBlIR3ITM_64WkduJSVNm8jdIQ8Vs0fr1RYuuVXzN4gdUVICCzKc" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Here</a>'s an interview with a couple of artists involved in the upcoming Metamodern Art Festival in Kiev. A common theme about the definition of metamodernism is a return to an overall meta-narrative, that is, a story that provides meaning to all aspects of life, that grounds our beliefs in something beyond our individual selves. They also note that in times of cultural stress we are more likely to see visions of helpers from some beyond, like angels and fairies in times past, a<span class="text_exposed_show">nd now in a more technological society UFOs. So I'm wondering if this attraction to metamodernism's own meta-narrative is exactly one of those beyonds to/for which we are seeking aid in this troubled time? It's almost as if the story of metamodernism is the next deus ex machina.</span></p>
<div class="text_exposed_show"><p>Whereas something else Alexandra said seems a more likely candidate for the next metanarrative, the collaborative commons, which has no need of a beyond to save us, for it comes from we the people saving ourselves. She said:</p>
<p>"Since the revolution in 2014 normal people have become politically active and don’t rely on the government like they did before. Instead of waiting for the Government to come and fix things they are doing what they need for themselves, cooperating and collaborating without any command. They have realised that they have the power to create their own country. Before, it was kind of detached because everything was in the power of oligarchs and criminals. Now the situation is changing and although people realise that it won’t happen overnight they think that maybe we can achieve a better social and economic situation if we work for it. People are starting to feel like they are part of this grand narrative, part of history."</p>
<p><span class="text_exposed_show"><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>Metanarratives yes. A command and control one that must define itself as the next one saving us all, maybe not so much.</span></span></span></span></p>
</div> I'm also reminded of this Mas…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-31:5301756:Comment:771082019-08-31T13:36:08.392ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>I'm also reminded of <a href="https://www.gse.harvard.edu/~ddl/articlesCopy/Mascolo_Fischer_Dynamic_Development_072009_rvsdJul27.pdf" rel="noopener" target="_blank">this</a> Mascolo and Fischer paper. And yes, I know, this is also an example of using sources to support my own biases.</p>
<p>"Human development occurs in medias res– in the middle of everything. [...] We elaborate a model of human development that takes seriously the idea that the structures and processes of human action…</p>
<p>I'm also reminded of <a href="https://www.gse.harvard.edu/~ddl/articlesCopy/Mascolo_Fischer_Dynamic_Development_072009_rvsdJul27.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">this</a> Mascolo and Fischer paper. And yes, I know, this is also an example of using sources to support my own biases.</p>
<p>"Human development occurs in medias res– in the middle of everything. [...] We elaborate a model of human development that takes seriously the idea that the structures and processes of human action operate as dynamic processes that take diverse forms and trajectories as they develop in medias res."</p>
<p>"Human development is dynamic; it does not occur according to fixed plans whether those plans are regarded as genetic, psychological or cultural in origin. To understand the processes by which development occurs, we can no longer focus on individual forces, or even multiple forces acting independently; instead, it is necessary to analyze how biology, action and context interact within a relational developmental system."</p> The above has been consolidat…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-26:5301756:Comment:771072019-08-26T23:55:54.693ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>The above has been consolidated into an Integral World essay <a href="http://www.integralworld.net/berge12.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">here</a>.</p>
<p>The above has been consolidated into an Integral World essay <a href="http://www.integralworld.net/berge12.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">here</a>.</p> Models are useful as long as…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-26:5301756:Comment:772072019-08-26T14:23:08.545ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>Models are useful as long as they don't get divorced from the concrete realities they represent. That's my concern in this diatribe. On the other hand, as I note below, models can be useful to understand a phenomenon and perhaps help it along, as long as they stay connected to the concrete reality. It's only when a model gets divorced from that reality, lost in its abstractions as if they were from on high, that it becomes a problem. 2nd gen cogsci…</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>Models are useful as long as they don't get divorced from the concrete realities they represent. That's my concern in this diatribe. On the other hand, as I note below, models can be useful to understand a phenomenon and perhaps help it along, as long as they stay connected to the concrete reality. It's only when a model gets divorced from that reality, lost in its abstractions as if they were from on high, that it becomes a problem. 2nd gen cogsci helps us to understand that about how our own brains and minds work.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>It's ok to make models based on what we know, but we have to be open to change them when what we know changes, and/or the environment we're modeling changes. It's especially insidious when we make assumptions about the reality we're modeling based on (particularly mathematical) a priori axioms taken as given (by God, Plato or Aristotle).</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span><span class="_3l3x _1n4g">I'm also reminded of the 7 agreed upon <a href="https://www.ica.coop/sites/default/files/publication-files/ica-guidance-notes-en-310629900.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3Uf5Hui9nHrYfpklf0AMKWzYLE0BofA-pSqR6TI2CXd6z07RdaPLDhpjQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener">principles of cooperatives</a>. While the principles are consistent across cooperatives, there are differences in how those principles are enacted given different locations and contexts. There really is no "one size fits all" model across all domains.</span><br/></span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span><span class="_3l3x _1n4g">"The Co-operative Principles and these Guidance Notes on their application are not a doctrine to be observed, nor are they a straightjacket on the entrepreneurial innovation of co-operatives seeking to meet their members’ economic, social, cultural, and environmental needs. Innovation to meet the needs of co-operative members has always been the mother and father of co-operative enterprise and will remain so. These Guidance Notes are exactly that: guidance for co-operatives operating in different legislative jurisdictions with differing regulatory requirements, serving many different communities and cultures. The Co-operative Principles are universal, but these Guidance Notes are not intended to be prescriptive. They seek to explore and encapsulate how the underlying principles of a co-operative enterprise are to be applied in vastly different conditions to those that existed when co-operatives were first established. They are guidelines that should be able to be interpreted by co-operatives."</span></span></span></span></p> Janine Rickard replied in the…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-22:5301756:Comment:773022019-08-22T00:36:53.785ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Janine Rickard replied in the FB thread:</p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>"What did Voltaire actually mean by 'we must cultivate our gardens' and does it apply here? One of the diseases of modernity, in fact I'd wager it is the central disease of the modern individual (in the West) is the literal preoccupation w</span><span>ith thought and abstracted sensory information (screens) almost to the degree that only stopping the onslaught with meditation will reveal another…</span></span></span></p>
<p>Janine Rickard replied in the FB thread:</p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>"What did Voltaire actually mean by 'we must cultivate our gardens' and does it apply here? One of the diseases of modernity, in fact I'd wager it is the central disease of the modern individual (in the West) is the literal preoccupation w</span><span>ith thought and abstracted sensory information (screens) almost to the degree that only stopping the onslaught with meditation will reveal another mode of being, the direct experience of beingness. For myself I finally understood how to take the inner quiet outward by making myself wordlessly observe, I mean look at in detail, nature, just the plants and trees on my land, no commentary.<br/><br/>"It is in this space that the 'solutions' will pop up effortlessly and aptly to the circumstance, I think.<br/><br/>"While a critical mass of humanity has returned to doing this, by circumstance and/or design, I think we will see the tipping point in the collaborative commons. We need to flip the amount of time spent in each mode, rational-linguistic vs presencing 180 degrees and of course this will encourage us to cling less tightly to the products of thinking."</span></span></span></p> Layman Pascal commented on th…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-08-22:5301756:Comment:772032019-08-22T00:30:33.463ZEdward theurj Bergehttps://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Layman Pascal commented on the FB IPS <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/470435939720069/permalink/2303851996378445/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">forum thread</a>:</p>
<p>"<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Since there is no way to solve this knot by 'top down' inhibition of our use of models -- we need something else. Something, I think, that has two sources. The first is a deeper, experiential and embodied practice of learning things outside of consci</span><span>ous…</span></span></span></p>
<p>Layman Pascal commented on the FB IPS <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/470435939720069/permalink/2303851996378445/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">forum thread</a>:</p>
<p>"<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Since there is no way to solve this knot by 'top down' inhibition of our use of models -- we need something else. Something, I think, that has two sources. The first is a deeper, experiential and embodied practice of learning things outside of consci</span><span>ous mapping and social conversation. As we gain indirect and experiential intelligence we also start to anticipate differently when it comes to the learning and spread of ideas. We expect ideas to come up, to come sideways, to emerge organically -- because we've seen that succeed in ourselves.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>"The second thing is that there are philosophical insights that counterbalance the tendency of the intellect to get trapped in the model-application mode. Ideas relating to complexity, antifragility, heuristics, sense-making, nonlinearity, multi-lateral causation in social upheavals, etc. all go a long way toward balancing out the confidence that models seem to give. It may be that models become over-emphasized in a psyche that has a lot of structures on the modelling 'side' but not a lot of intelligent input and intellectual examples to balance it out on the 'counter-modelling' side. If a person, who already leans very far over to their left side, is handed a hefty weight on that side -- it is no surprise that we will find them listing or even toppling in that direction at some unspecified future moment."</span></span></span></p>