Why Wisconsin matters - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T16:24:36Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/why-wisconsin-matters?x=1&id=5301756%3ATopic%3A7205&feed=yes&xn_auth=noLooks like the unions won't b…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-26:5301756:Comment:207062011-06-26T19:08:02.977Zehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/e
<p><br></br>Looks like the unions won't be happy <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110622/us_nm/us_chicago_convention_1" target="_blank">till they drive all the business</a> out of town.</p>
<p><br></br><cite>e said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>So unions for instance, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/governors_02-25.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the governor of Indiana said</a></span> he had a problem with his unions. He…</p>
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<p><br/>Looks like the unions won't be happy <a target="_blank" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110622/us_nm/us_chicago_convention_1">till they drive all the business</a> out of town.</p>
<p><br/><cite>e said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>So unions for instance, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/governors_02-25.html">the governor of Indiana said</a></span> he had a problem with his unions. He said they crippled his people’s ability to function. He said if he wanted to move a copier down the hall, he had to call the union. I experienced this first hand when I was at the main convention center in Chicago about 13 years ago. The electrician's union wanted to charge me $75 to plug in my trade show booth to a power outlet strip on the floor. This graft got so bad that Chicago started to lose long held trade shows to other cities like Orlando and Las Vegas and the mayor had to step in and smack some sense into the union management at the convention center.</p>
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</blockquote> Oh, the rabbling of 1st tier…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-05-11:5301756:Comment:152522011-05-11T05:44:30.830Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Oh, the rabbling of 1st tier politics and the enlightented praxis of 2nd tier politics? Just where is this fabled 2nd tier politics to be found in the States? hahaha.</p>
<p>Oh, the rabbling of 1st tier politics and the enlightented praxis of 2nd tier politics? Just where is this fabled 2nd tier politics to be found in the States? hahaha.</p> As for practical, liberal sol…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-05-11:5301756:Comment:152502011-05-11T01:52:03.331ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>As for practical, liberal solutions I referenced Thom Hartmann's book <em><a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/rebooting-the-american-dream" target="_self">Rebooting the American Dream</a></em> in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/rebooting-the-american-dream" target="_self">this thread</a>. I'm also exploring practical solutions in Eco Transitions by Anrsperger, a kennilingus-approved* economist in…</p>
<p>As for practical, liberal solutions I referenced Thom Hartmann's book <em><a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/rebooting-the-american-dream" target="_self">Rebooting the American Dream</a></em> in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/rebooting-the-american-dream" target="_self">this thread</a>. I'm also exploring practical solutions in Eco Transitions by Anrsperger, a kennilingus-approved* economist in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/eco-transitions" target="_self">this thread</a>. Not to mention the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/jeremy-rifkin" target="_self">Rifkin</a> and <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/progressive-economics" target="_self">Progressive Economics</a> threads. No, just MGM rhetoric from me if one is to believe e's frothing, autocratic conservatism hiding behind 2nd tierantics.</p>
<p>* At least at one time.</p> Here is Colbert's funny take…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-05-11:5301756:Comment:156322011-05-11T01:37:34.209ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Here is <a href="http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/385702/may-09-2011/the-word---autocratic-for-the-people" target="_blank">Colbert's funny take</a> on the tragic loss of democracy in Benton Harbor MI. The MI Governor makes no pretense that democracy is antithetical to his, and his corporate masters', agenda. It is obvious that such autocracy is also typical of the kennilingus modus operandi, all in the name of 2nd tierants taking responsibility for us lower-level, 1st…</p>
<p>Here is <a href="http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/385702/may-09-2011/the-word---autocratic-for-the-people" target="_blank">Colbert's funny take</a> on the tragic loss of democracy in Benton Harbor MI. The MI Governor makes no pretense that democracy is antithetical to his, and his corporate masters', agenda. It is obvious that such autocracy is also typical of the kennilingus modus operandi, all in the name of 2nd tierants taking responsibility for us lower-level, 1st tier ants incapable of self-governing.</p> Hey James,
The power struggle…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-27:5301756:Comment:102112011-03-27T17:41:02.799Zehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/e
<p>Hey James,</p>
<p>The power struggle is centered around Blue/Orange/Green. We can look at this with as much criteria as we wish. Here are a few simple ways. As 3 disparate groups vying for their values i.e. corporate Orange playing (buying) both political parties on either side. Or 2 groups i.e. blue/Orange and Orange/green using their money as influence. I personally don't see leaning to one side as integral. So what to do? Democracy can be defined as freedom and responsibility. With these…</p>
<p>Hey James,</p>
<p>The power struggle is centered around Blue/Orange/Green. We can look at this with as much criteria as we wish. Here are a few simple ways. As 3 disparate groups vying for their values i.e. corporate Orange playing (buying) both political parties on either side. Or 2 groups i.e. blue/Orange and Orange/green using their money as influence. I personally don't see leaning to one side as integral. So what to do? Democracy can be defined as freedom and responsibility. With these two needing to be balanced in any political action. I know this is a broad stroke but with just these 2 ideas, any problem can become clearer so a course of action may emerge.</p>
<p><br/>So unions for instance, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/governors_02-25.html">the governor of Indiana said</a></span> he had a problem with his unions. He said they crippled his people’s ability to function. He said if he wanted to move a copier down the hall, he had to call the union. I experienced this first hand when I was at the main convention center in Chicago about 13 years ago. The electrician's union wanted to charge me $75 to plug in my trade show booth to a power outlet strip on the floor. This graft got so bad that Chicago started to lose long held trade shows to other cities like Orlando and Las Vegas and the mayor had to step in and smack some sense into the union management at the convention center.</p>
<p><br/>So instead of knee jerk reacting to what the Wisconsin governor is doing maybe ask how they got into the position in the first place i.e. how did fiscal irresponsibility lead to him being able to make union busting politically plausible. But that may require you looking at budgets and spending and sounding "like you're vying for a spot as a frothing-at-the mouth-commentator on Fox News” and appearing conservative God forbid. hahaha</p>
<p><br/>More of this is coming. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.usdebtclock.org/">Look at this site</a></span> and see where the Republican Right is licking their chops planning their next attacks. So we can either do the hard work of becoming fiscally responsible or start buying a wardrobe of pajamas and planning our oh so powerful liberal sleepovers. But I guess we actually want this sort of thing. I mean what would Edward get so…umm… excited about and moralize over without it? Hahaha <br/><br/>I say all first tier politics are <strong>B</strong><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">ia</span><strong>S</strong><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">ed</span>. Looking at the two Governor's states from the PBS interview and <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.census.gov/govs/apes/">using the numbers from here</a></span> do we see a loss in collective bargaining leading to a drop in wages and an increase in part time employees without full time benefits? If Maddow’s liberal BiaS holds true Indiana workers should make substantially less than Montana and there will be many more part time employees. Let’s find out.</p>
<p><br/>Plugging Montana into the 2009 State Government to get the latest data we get.</p>
<p><br/>12months x $77,090,116/20590(full time employees) = $44928 a year per full time equivalent employee <br/>The ratio of full/part time employees = 17149/9211 = 1.86</p>
<p><br/>Plugging union busting Indiana into the 2009 State Government to get the latest data we get.</p>
<p><br/>12months x $357,157,988/92,484/92,484(full time employees) = $46342 a year per full time equivalent employee <br/>The ratio of full/part time employees = 76790/40,709 = 1.89 <br/><br/>So we see Indiana workers without collective bargaining rights for the last 6 years having a 3% higher full time wage and a slightly higher full to part time employment ratio. This random state pair does not support Maddow's nor Edward's liberal BiaS rants. Edward would you like to put your liberal spin on the numbers? Maybe find some liberal blog about how PBS is owned by FOX News or the US Census Bureau’s numbers are being manipulated by Republicans, etc. (I am sure you can find something on Wikileaks)? Maybe find a site on cost of living by state or benefit packages to see if that factors in to erase the 3% and show how Satan's Republican cabal is secretly out to hurt the working class and prove all this is not about fiscal responsibility. If not then these unbiased numbers in fact show you are wrong and I will accept your apology on calling me an enabler. :-)</p>
<p><br/>What would be constructive is to find out how these Governors (one liberal and one conservative) have managed to keep their states solvent in this difficult economy. But that is not as fun as bitching and moaning about what the "other side" is doing wrong and about how right my superior political views are. Such is first tier politics i.e. high on the rhetoric, low on actual working solutions.</p> Btw, I too am highly critical…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-17:5301756:Comment:92012011-03-17T16:23:03.452ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
Btw, I too am highly critical of the majority of Democrats in Congress for many of the points enumerated above and let them know about it on a regular basis. And I'm working to replace them with better representatives.
Btw, I too am highly critical of the majority of Democrats in Congress for many of the points enumerated above and let them know about it on a regular basis. And I'm working to replace them with better representatives. What are you going to do abou…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-17:5301756:Comment:85362011-03-17T12:46:31.820ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><em>What are you going to do about it? Post online about how wrong it is</em>?</p>
<p>If that's all I'm doing you'd have a point, but as usual it is not and you don't. I use rhetoric to move people to action, including motivating myself. It's something at which the conservatives are indeed adept and from which liberals have much to learn. So what else can we do? I use the rhetoric to take personal responsibility for my consumer purchases. I try to find out which companies are supportive of…</p>
<p><em>What are you going to do about it? Post online about how wrong it is</em>?</p>
<p>If that's all I'm doing you'd have a point, but as usual it is not and you don't. I use rhetoric to move people to action, including motivating myself. It's something at which the conservatives are indeed adept and from which liberals have much to learn. So what else can we do? I use the rhetoric to take personal responsibility for my consumer purchases. I try to find out which companies are supportive of fair labor practices and environmental impact and spend my money at such businesses, conversely withdrawing it from those that bust unions, pollute and treat employees like shit. (Of the latter, e.g., Integral Institute.) I also get politically involved on a variety of levels, from nagging representatives on all levels of government to organizing public interest lobbying groups. That is another thing at which conservatives are skilled, organizing and pooling money to buy politicians. Well the rest of us can do the same thing and we are, and it will have discernible effects in the next elections. (As one example, see the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://boldprogressives.org/home" target="_blank">PCCC</a>.)</p>
<p>However we should not neglect the powerful impact of language and rhetoric on this process. Like xibalba mentioned in the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/constructivist-foundations" target="_self">constructivist foundations</a> thread, the likes of Foucault taught us to investigate the power structures behind the rhetoric and how to use it for liberation instead of enslavement. Hence posting on forums like this which attract folks with a "spiritual" impulse might indeed have some small influence in motivating us all to enact a better tomorrow my taking personal action today to right such inequities in our current system. It's true this will never happen unless the rest of us are moved to action. So I choose to goad in that direction rather than not only impotent acceptance of such inequity but tacit support by enacting the very rhetoric and practices that promote it.</p> Hi e
I'm not aware of being p…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-16:5301756:Comment:88092011-03-16T23:58:49.336ZJames Barrowhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/JamesBarrow
<p>Hi e</p>
<p>I'm not aware of being part of a "<em>postmodern green liberal value</em>", but I might be.</p>
<p>Either way, what would you suggest as an alternative, less defunct, less impotent approach?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I knew you were just stating a fact with regard to the rich paying layers to seek out tax loopholes. Do you think this is basically OK and that a right response is to just shrug our shoulders? You're not just shrugging your shoulders when it come to public sector pensions,…</p>
<p>Hi e</p>
<p>I'm not aware of being part of a "<em>postmodern green liberal value</em>", but I might be.</p>
<p>Either way, what would you suggest as an alternative, less defunct, less impotent approach?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I knew you were just stating a fact with regard to the rich paying layers to seek out tax loopholes. Do you think this is basically OK and that a right response is to just shrug our shoulders? You're not just shrugging your shoulders when it come to public sector pensions, rather you sound like you're vying for a spot as a frothing-at-the mouth-commentator on Fox News. Why is one just a fact for you, and the other something worth online shouting about?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also, do you not think that the kind of stuff Maddow is pointing to indicates that there is a conscious plan by powerful right wing / business interests in the US to disempower elected officials and basically privatise everything they possibly can? A bit like Cheney et al did with the Iraq war?</p> e: "You could raise the taxes…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-16:5301756:Comment:88082011-03-16T21:47:35.746Zehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/e
<p>e: "You could raise the taxes on the middle class and the poor (the rich will loophole out of any tax increases) to pay for it like the Governor of Illinois wants to do."</p>
<p><br></br>James: <em>Now I know you like to play devil's advocate right?</em></p>
<p>Nope I never do. It is a waste of time. <br></br><br></br><em>...But this throw away comment about the rich loopholings out of taxes as if it's no big deal...... Come on e. ... You're joking right?</em></p>
<p><br></br>Just stating a fact. The rich…</p>
<p>e: "You could raise the taxes on the middle class and the poor (the rich will loophole out of any tax increases) to pay for it like the Governor of Illinois wants to do."</p>
<p><br/>James: <em>Now I know you like to play devil's advocate right?</em></p>
<p>Nope I never do. It is a waste of time. <br/><br/><em>...But this throw away comment about the rich loopholings out of taxes as if it's no big deal...... Come on e. ... You're joking right?</em></p>
<p><br/>Just stating a fact. The rich don't have to break any laws to not pay taxes, they just have a tax attorney look over what their accountant suggests is an exploitable loophole in the law. What are you or Edward going to do about it? Post online about how "wrong" it is...boo f'ing hoo!! hahaha</p>
<p><br/>Look the postmodern green liberal value is defunct, it is impotent, it cannot act as it knee jerk reacts. It looks down upon all "lower" value memes and in its intellectual superior smugness the world crumbles. Let's look at some of its recent failures (add your own favorites to the list).</p>
<p><br/>1) 2 wars which it agreed and supported... started by Blue Crusaders and Orange opportunists!! <br/>2) How many "superior" postmodernists lost money in the market to Orange? <br/>3) Health care reform. Why does everyone’s health care premiums keep going up? <br/>4) They had control of the Presidency, House and Senate and wealth is more concentrated in a few people’s hands than ever before! <br/>5) Teenage pregnancy is on the rise. <br/>6) The environment is under siege. <br/>7) They win a popular vote for the Presidency but lose it because of chads! <br/>8) The public school systems are disasters but teachers and administrators get bonuses and retire rich. <br/>9) No higher taxes on the filthy rich. <br/>10) Every level of government is broke. <br/>11) A governor in Wisconsin busts public unions and the Democrats run and hide and they organize pajama sleep overs! Ohhhhh....wow...what a show of superiority, maybe they will throw rotten fruit at the Governor and show him who is boss or better yet blog about how unintelligent he is! lol <br/>12) On and on and on....</p>
<p> </p> Yes, it's the specifics of th…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-03-10:5301756:Comment:86012011-03-10T22:12:00.443ZJames Barrowhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/JamesBarrow
<p>Yes, it's the specifics of the Michigan scenario which are simply unbelievable. While the focus is on Madison they are sneaking in something even worse in Michigan. <a href="http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/03/03/arizona-introduces-bill-to-form-state-army-for-gov-brewer-arizona-gun-wild/" target="_blank">Seems Arizona is also going berserk</a></p>
<p>WTF IS HAPPENING!?</p>
<p>Yes, it's the specifics of the Michigan scenario which are simply unbelievable. While the focus is on Madison they are sneaking in something even worse in Michigan. <a href="http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/03/03/arizona-introduces-bill-to-form-state-army-for-gov-brewer-arizona-gun-wild/" target="_blank">Seems Arizona is also going berserk</a></p>
<p>WTF IS HAPPENING!?</p>