Uprising ~ Eric Towle - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T07:50:25Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/uprising-by-eric-towle?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A61874&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNiiice, to see some Integrall…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-08-10:5301756:Comment:617762015-08-10T07:24:42.344ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>Niiice, to see some Integrally-interested heads starting to pull up out of the sand!!!!!!!! And get a bit broader view of history and the streams of agency involved in creating history -- and present! I've long been struck by the naivete represented by political and economic discussions among Integrally-interested folks. Towle seems to be cracking the paradigm a bit.</p>
<p>And thanks for this wonderful discussion!</p>
<p>Niiice, to see some Integrally-interested heads starting to pull up out of the sand!!!!!!!! And get a bit broader view of history and the streams of agency involved in creating history -- and present! I've long been struck by the naivete represented by political and economic discussions among Integrally-interested folks. Towle seems to be cracking the paradigm a bit.</p>
<p>And thanks for this wonderful discussion!</p> Any paper addressed to the in…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-08-01:5301756:Comment:618772015-08-01T04:12:08.353ZDavidM58http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/DavidM58
<p>Any paper addressed to the integral community that discusses the sorrows of empire, and references Gebser, Chalmers, Chomsky, and Moyers' book on The Secret Government* gets my immediate attention and a hearty "thank you!" There is much for me to appreciate here. And thank you also Neelesh - I agree with Bruce that your summary and comments are a very valuable contribution.</p>
<p>However, there are also elements of this paper that I am not totally comfortable with. I think there is more…</p>
<p>Any paper addressed to the integral community that discusses the sorrows of empire, and references Gebser, Chalmers, Chomsky, and Moyers' book on The Secret Government* gets my immediate attention and a hearty "thank you!" There is much for me to appreciate here. And thank you also Neelesh - I agree with Bruce that your summary and comments are a very valuable contribution.</p>
<p>However, there are also elements of this paper that I am not totally comfortable with. I think there is more to the story than just what is presented here. Eric Towle and I discussed this a bit at the conference. I look at it largely from the perspective of Howard Odum's maximum power principle, and the additional thoughts of David Holmgren. Don't have time or space to go into it here, but basically I think we need to give more attention to the role of available energy in our LR systems. This was partially addressed in my paper, and will hopefully be more fully developed in the next one. The energy available to any system or civilization plays a huge role. And Eric and I disagree on the extent to which the fossil fuel energy companies of today are squashing alternative energy technology (his view) vs. my view of how little net energy is actually available from current alternative energy technologies.</p>
<p>Perhaps the best alternative viewpoint I can currently offer would be David Holmgren's insightful and sometimes counter-intuitive essay: <em><strong><a href="http://holmgren.com.au/money-vs-fossil-energy/" target="_blank">Money Vs. Fossil Fuel: The Battle for Control of the World</a></strong></em>.</p>
<p>“This essay provides a framework for understanding the ideological roots of the current global crisis that I believe is more useful than the now tired Left Right political spectrum. I use this framework to provide a commentary on current political machinations around Climate Change and Peak Oil. Building form the same energetic literacy that informs Permaculture and Future Scenarios, it challenges much of the strategic logic behind current mainstream climate change activism. Like the <a href="http://holmgren.com.au/product/future-scenarios/">Future Scenarios</a> work, this essay is intended to help environmental and social activists better avoid the obstacles to effective action in a chaotic age.” – David Holmgren</p>
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<p>But back to Bill Moyers:</p>
<p>*It is my belief that every American should read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Government-Constitution-Crisis/dp/B000IBST5E" target="_blank">The Secret Government</a> and watch the PBS show it was based on.</p>
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<p></p> Hi Abhishek, that is a valid…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-08-01:5301756:Comment:618742015-08-01T01:34:35.685ZNeelesh Marikhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/NeeleshMarik
<p>Hi Abhishek, that is a valid and important question you raise</p>
<p>The short answer is that I think it is a combination of both - their is an agentic element in the control drive, and then a system dynamic sets in based on the response of the 'controlled'.</p>
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<p>Let us think of a circle of causality here, rather than a linear cause-effect relationship. When the controller has an impulse to control and exercises it through behaviour and action, the controlled entity can either…</p>
<p>Hi Abhishek, that is a valid and important question you raise</p>
<p>The short answer is that I think it is a combination of both - their is an agentic element in the control drive, and then a system dynamic sets in based on the response of the 'controlled'.</p>
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<p>Let us think of a circle of causality here, rather than a linear cause-effect relationship. When the controller has an impulse to control and exercises it through behaviour and action, the controlled entity can either acquiesce, or resist. If he acquiesces, the controller receives a signal that his action is both effective and valid. If he (the controlled entity) resists, the controller can then either let go of his control impulse, or redouble his efforts; the former resulting in a balancing feedback loop, and the latter in a reinforcing feedback loop. The choices of both entities in determined by their quality of consciousness.</p>
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<p>As time progresses and consciousness propels man towards individuation and autonomy, both entities are likely to get caught up in a vicious reinforcing loop. The more the controller tries to control, the more the controlled will try to resist, and so on. The loop can only be disrupted by a shift in consciousness, and/or environmental conditions intervening in some way to disrupt or hijack the process. The Wilberian tetra-dynamic comes in to make matters more complex: techno-economic systems, behavioural patterns, emergent culture, and individual consciousness enter into play.</p>
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<p>Why the urge to control in the first place? Yuval Noah Harari, is his book Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind, traces this back to the Cognitive Revolution, when man learnt to think and communicate. To be able to conduct social affairs and 'run' things, the self appointed or chosen leader had to exercise some amount of control. Unlike animals who can only control entities whom they 'personally' know, humans needed a new artefact to manage people whom they did not know. Social scientists agree on a number of around 150, beyond which it is impossible to manage people based on direct familiarity and personal contact and influence. The artefact invented was myth - a narrative that proclaimed a certain truth of how things ought to be, which translated into a belief system that people subscribe to. </p>
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<p>So far so good. The problem comes in when the controller gets used to, and eventually drunk on the power he enjoys. His interests shift to personal gain more than social welfare. Again, this is understandable when resources are scarce, and consciousness is primarily survivalist. However, it is in the controller interest to preserve the narrative and/or tweak it in his favour even when conditions change, usually done by invoking some divine ordainment or fabricated story to derive legitimacy. It is in his interest then to ensure the controlled DO NOT evolve in consciousness, do not have the capacity to revisit the belief system and click the 'unsubscribe' button, metaphorically speaking!</p>
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<p>In the absence of the consciousness of the controller evolving, or evolving in an imbalanced way with cognitive capacity outpacing heart-centeredness and moral capacity, he will resort to only one way of exercising power - unilateral power (rather than mutualized or transforming power), which sets the vicious reinforcing loop further into motion.</p>
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<p>To break this loop we need a combination of spiritual awareness and systems thinking - to be able to see the same impulses within ourselves in day-to-day life situations, cognizant of a probability of ourselves enacting the same dynamic if we were in a position of power, and to be able to understand the loop disruption opportunities based on present moment awareness, dynamic sensing and heart-led intention.</p> Thanks for sharing this Neele…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-07-31:5301756:Comment:620182015-07-31T18:31:05.615ZAbhishek Thakorehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AbhishekThakore
<p>Thanks for sharing this Neelesh</p>
<p><br></br>In such conversations I have wondered whether the forces from the 'top' are as deliberate and in-sync with each other as we make them out to be in our narratives, or are they merely independent agents acting with a vague sense of awareness about other such agents, and in their self interest?<br></br><br></br>Moreover, as with development of consciousness (or ego or stages), I wonder if the development of the 'control mechanisms' is emergent or…</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this Neelesh</p>
<p><br/>In such conversations I have wondered whether the forces from the 'top' are as deliberate and in-sync with each other as we make them out to be in our narratives, or are they merely independent agents acting with a vague sense of awareness about other such agents, and in their self interest?<br/><br/>Moreover, as with development of consciousness (or ego or stages), I wonder if the development of the 'control mechanisms' is emergent or directed....<br/><br/>Any thoughts on this? To me a reflection on this (and the assumptions with which we proceed)seems to be an important step in the journey to challenging this</p> A really excellent contributi…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-07-31:5301756:Comment:620142015-07-31T15:26:39.186ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>A really excellent contribution, Neelesh -- thank you. Not only summarizing and introducing the paper but significantly contributing to its ideas (and the challenges they pose to much Integral <em>status quo</em> thinking). I have linked to this thread on the FB forum. </p>
<p>A really excellent contribution, Neelesh -- thank you. Not only summarizing and introducing the paper but significantly contributing to its ideas (and the challenges they pose to much Integral <em>status quo</em> thinking). I have linked to this thread on the FB forum. </p>