Tom Murray - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T12:33:04Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/tom-murray?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A53194&feed=yes&xn_auth=noReading through a couple of M…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-26:5301756:Comment:627442015-10-26T18:47:34.950Zandrewhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/andrew
<p>Reading through a couple of Murray's papers. There certainly appears to be a group of relatively healthy 1%'ers.; which is completely consistent with my 'right hand of god ' metaphor (for the moment we won't talk about the lying 1% left handers like Mr. Blair who recently conceded one very tiny deception among very many done by his cabal over the past 500 years.) It should be noted that I don't hold an hysterical view of these 'evil' actors as they are performing their part in the universal…</p>
<p>Reading through a couple of Murray's papers. There certainly appears to be a group of relatively healthy 1%'ers.; which is completely consistent with my 'right hand of god ' metaphor (for the moment we won't talk about the lying 1% left handers like Mr. Blair who recently conceded one very tiny deception among very many done by his cabal over the past 500 years.) It should be noted that I don't hold an hysterical view of these 'evil' actors as they are performing their part in the universal 'passion play ', or so to speak.</p>
<p>Anyway, in one of the papers he makes a good point about the discrepancy between competence and performance and I immediately thought of ACP . At what point is civilzation going to run out of time for any competent performance in addressing the ability to change direction before climatic chaos minimizes our ability to act? And from the developmental perspective why do those who hold these views think it is possible to move 5 billion more people up to orange in the next 50 years (specifically how they live in the right quads). It seems to me there may be a bias towards complexity( we can solve complex problems via out techno prowess ) in the Integral community rather than a pragmatic move to simple living for the larger demographic of the earths population . BTW: I don't believe this needs to be a choice between income and unemployment . We could turn automobile factories into Tiny House production facilities and such.</p>
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<p></p> I'm with you Sir!tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:628012015-10-24T22:37:28.844Zandrewhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/andrew
<p>I'm with you Sir!</p>
<p>I'm with you Sir!</p> As should be obvious by now,…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:625002015-10-24T22:33:58.660ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>As should be obvious by now, I no longer give one damn how I'm measured by some metaphysical stick.</p>
<p>As should be obvious by now, I no longer give one damn how I'm measured by some metaphysical stick.</p> Comments like 'turd blossom'…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:625642015-10-24T20:25:24.398Zandrewhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/andrew
<p>Comments like 'turd blossom' will only get you metric'd to the back of the integral class with a dunce cap on ! I apologize in advance for lowering the metric of this group:( </p>
<p>dzxs ayxtxong wtzhsn trfs myturc account for psychopathology? </p>
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<p>I guess this was inevitable and a part of the MIP CIV.</p>
<p>Comments like 'turd blossom' will only get you metric'd to the back of the integral class with a dunce cap on ! I apologize in advance for lowering the metric of this group:( </p>
<p>dzxs ayxtxong wtzhsn trfs myturc account for psychopathology? </p>
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<p>I guess this was inevitable and a part of the MIP CIV.</p> From FB:
Balder: I won't have…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:627402015-10-24T16:14:20.836ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>From FB:</p>
<p>Balder: <span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>I won't have time to listen to this till this afternoon, so I don't know yet what Tom says in it, but in</span> <a class="profileLink" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/terri.ofallon?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Terri</a><span>'s work on individual developmental assessment, I understand she assesses grammatical patterns in speech more than individual vocabulary words.</span></span></span></span></p>
<p>Me:…</p>
<p>From FB:</p>
<p>Balder: <span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>I won't have time to listen to this till this afternoon, so I don't know yet what Tom says in it, but in</span> <a class="profileLink" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/terri.ofallon?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Terri</a><span>'s work on individual developmental assessment, I understand she assesses grammatical patterns in speech more than individual vocabulary words.</span></span></span></span></p>
<p>Me: <span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>I skimmed Murray's paper just now and got that impression as well. My first thought was that there are those who have advanced grammatical and rhetorical skill who are still regressive psychopaths. Frank Luntz, Paul Ryan and turd blossom Carl Rove come immediately to mind.</span></span></span></span></p> I'm wondering though if they…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:625632015-10-24T15:55:31.340ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>I'm wondering though if they take certain words for granted to represent different memes. Some of us use terms in different or unique ways that may fall through such standardized cracks. And with what standard or perspective are such words assigned to memes? What meme are the terms <em>assholon</em> or <em>kennilingus</em>, just MGM?<br/></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>I'm wondering though if they take certain words for granted to represent different memes. Some of us use terms in different or unique ways that may fall through such standardized cracks. And with what standard or perspective are such words assigned to memes? What meme are the terms <em>assholon</em> or <em>kennilingus</em>, just MGM?<br/></span></span></span></span></p> Balder posted in FB on this M…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-10-24:5301756:Comment:627392015-10-24T15:53:57.851ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Balder posted in FB on <a href="http://ludusamoris.org/blog/2015/10/15/vvp-episode-10-tom-murray" target="_blank">this</a> MetaIntegral interview of Tom Murray:</p>
<p>In this interview, guest host Sean Esbjörn-Hargens talked to Tom Murray of Perspegrity Solutions about his exploratory research on using <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/stagelens/" target="_blank">automated text analysis to assess group developmental levels</a>. Tom has teamed up with Suzanne Cook-Greuter and Terri…</p>
<p>Balder posted in FB on <a href="http://ludusamoris.org/blog/2015/10/15/vvp-episode-10-tom-murray" target="_blank">this</a> MetaIntegral interview of Tom Murray:</p>
<p>In this interview, guest host Sean Esbjörn-Hargens talked to Tom Murray of Perspegrity Solutions about his exploratory research on using <a target="_blank" href="https://sites.google.com/site/stagelens/">automated text analysis to assess group developmental levels</a>. Tom has teamed up with Suzanne Cook-Greuter and Terri O'Fallon to better understand how to do this effectively and accurately. Tom is a longtime member of the Integral community and a recent grant recipient through the MetaIntegral Foundation.</p> Balder made me aware of this…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-03-15:5301756:Comment:608122015-03-15T23:05:39.208ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Balder made me aware of <a href="http://perspegrity.com/papers/EmbodiedRealism_CriticalRealism_IT.pdf" target="_blank">this</a> Murray article from the latter's <a href="http://perspegrity.com/papers.html" target="_blank">website</a>.</p>
<p>Balder made me aware of <a href="http://perspegrity.com/papers/EmbodiedRealism_CriticalRealism_IT.pdf" target="_blank">this</a> Murray article from the latter's <a href="http://perspegrity.com/papers.html" target="_blank">website</a>.</p> A few quick comments on the l…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-01-02:5301756:Comment:533772014-01-02T22:20:24.370ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>A few quick comments on the last paper. Murray is critical of the metaphysical claims and language used by kennilinguists. And that such claims and language do not take account of the indeterministic factors he discusses. And he states that "in the postmetaphysical milieu we can no longer allow for the possibility of direct contact with 'reality' or 'true knowledge' by some privileged few" (18).</p>
<p>Yet we must nonetheless allow for the validity of one's feelings and perceptions of…</p>
<p>A few quick comments on the last paper. Murray is critical of the metaphysical claims and language used by kennilinguists. And that such claims and language do not take account of the indeterministic factors he discusses. And he states that "in the postmetaphysical milieu we can no longer allow for the possibility of direct contact with 'reality' or 'true knowledge' by some privileged few" (18).</p>
<p>Yet we must nonetheless allow for the validity of one's feelings and perceptions of mystical states, which may not be amenable to rational or scientific analysis. While he argues for postmetaphysical notions of fallibility of belief on the one hand he seems to want to allow it on the other, with no way to adjudicate false from valid claims. And that <em>is</em> the postmetaphysical project, to indeed judge claims to direct experience to ultimate reality as metaphysical and thereby false. We need better ways to discern what exactly these mystical experiences are as yes, fallible best guesses for now open to revision. But they are better guesses than the metaphysical claims in a progression of worldview development.</p>
<p>Along that line see the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/an-integral-postmetaphysical" target="_self">thread on states</a>, whichs attempt such a postmetaphysical recontexualization that honors the experiences but not the metaphysical interpretations. Also my <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/states-stages-the-wc-lattice-and-the-fold" target="_self">thread on states and stages</a> is another such attempt.</p> Yes, this is in queue for our…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2014-01-02:5301756:Comment:534432014-01-02T21:09:59.045ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>Yes, this is in queue for our ITC paper discussions; I've been looking forward to getting to it. (I started looking yesterday at the next one in line, by Wight, in anticipation of getting those discussions going again now that the busy-ness of the past two months has subsided). </p>
<p>Yes, this is in queue for our ITC paper discussions; I've been looking forward to getting to it. (I started looking yesterday at the next one in line, by Wight, in anticipation of getting those discussions going again now that the busy-ness of the past two months has subsided). </p>