The Meaning of Planetary Civilization - Tim Winton - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T12:00:21Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/the-meaning-of-planetary-civilization-tim-winton?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A52293&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi Neelesh, I am not sure why…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-12-02:5301756:Comment:528932013-12-02T01:36:12.362ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>Hi Neelesh, I am not sure why I am not getting notifications from this discussion, so I am just now seeing your response to the word doc part of my communication to Tim. Thanks so much. Yes, it's so true that the languaging is a huge issue, in "translating downward." I am not sure why you referenced translating upward from Blue, as that was not part of my thinking. ?? I too am in agreement that "oneness" and "nondual" won't do as terms; I hope I didn't imply that I thought they would. I…</p>
<p>Hi Neelesh, I am not sure why I am not getting notifications from this discussion, so I am just now seeing your response to the word doc part of my communication to Tim. Thanks so much. Yes, it's so true that the languaging is a huge issue, in "translating downward." I am not sure why you referenced translating upward from Blue, as that was not part of my thinking. ?? I too am in agreement that "oneness" and "nondual" won't do as terms; I hope I didn't imply that I thought they would. I really like your candidates of terms, and yes, language is always evolving; we can try to keep up, and we can even try to lead or further that evolution!!</p>
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<p>If I understand your suggestion, you are adding a resource for Tim to draw from? For the final presentation to the final audience, words seem to me to carry much more impact than presenting them with a diagram. A lot of people just don't grasp or resonate with diagrams, but every at least has the ILLUSION they understand the meanings of words being used, haha.</p>
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<p>Really resonating with this</p>
<p><strong>a <em>modernist dictionary</em> of sorts, that generate holistic and unitive UL and LL meanings and 'feelings'. Therein lies the power of a semiotic process, because it is simultaneously descriptive and enactive.</strong></p>
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<p><span>That simultaneity is excitingly creative!</span></p>
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<p><span>I am signed up for the Bellingham workshop that David mentioned above. Hope to meet others there!</span></p> 1. Neelesh, has there been an…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-12-01:5301756:Comment:531412013-12-01T23:27:14.955ZDavidM58http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/DavidM58
<p>1. Neelesh, has there been any response on the Facebook page to your suggestion to try any of the four strategies for dealing with disharmony there?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. For anyone interested in learning PD, one can start online at the PD website page "<a href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/training/learn/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Learn</a>".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>3. The next step would be to attend a Level 1 One Day Workshop. These are few and far between at this point, but 2 coming up…</p>
<p>1. Neelesh, has there been any response on the Facebook page to your suggestion to try any of the four strategies for dealing with disharmony there?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. For anyone interested in learning PD, one can start online at the PD website page "<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/training/learn/" target="_blank">Learn</a>".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>3. The next step would be to attend a Level 1 One Day Workshop. These are few and far between at this point, but 2 coming up on the west coast of the U.S. One in <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.eventbrite.com/e/patterndynamicstm-one-day-workshop-bay-area-oakland-registration-8925872525" target="_blank">Oakland on January 18th</a>, and another in <strong><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eventbrite.com/e/patterndynamicstm-one-day-workshop-bellingham-registration-8926283755?aff=RhythmPolarityStructure&afu=11889076017" target="_blank">Bellingham, WA on January 26th</a></strong>. I'm organizing the Bellingham workshop, so please consider attending - I'd love to meet all Integral Post-Metaphysics participants. :)</p>
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<p>The One Day Workshop is cool because it integrates a number of learning methodologies, from lecture presentation to embodied movement to participatory / exploratory / meaning-making conversations. The focus is on the primary 7 first order Patterns. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://integralleadershipreview.com/8479-tim-wintons-pattern-dynamics-workshops-in-usa-and-canada-januaryfebruary-2013/" target="_blank">See here for more info</a>. The day begins with a PD over-view like this one:<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0" height="250" width="400"><param name="src" value="http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03"></param><param name="wmode" value="opaque"></param><param name="seamlesstabbing" value="true"></param><param name="allowfullscreen" value="false"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="never"></param><param name="overstretch" value="true"></param><param name="flashvars" value="guid=YpRxR9O1&isDynamicSeeking=true"></param><embed wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://s0.videopress.com/player.swf?v=1.03" allowfullscreen="false" allowscriptaccess="never" flashvars="guid=YpRxR9O1&isDynamicSeeking=true" height="250" width="400"></embed> </object>
</p>
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<p id="eow-description">4. After completing a One Day Workshop, the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/training/level-ii/" target="_blank">Level II training</a> is done in an online setting with a small group cohort, with a deep dive into the second order Patterns. Below is a sample of an online class in the PatternDynamics Level II Training Course. Our topic is the 7 Second Order Patterns of Creativity: Seed, Bifurcation, Adaptation, Growth, Emergence, Evolution, and Elegance (these patterns were more completely defined in a previous lecture - this is the follow-up conversation).<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/PETkAHdT9w4?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
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<p> </p> Hi Alia,
Your word doc is so…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-08:5301756:Comment:528382013-11-08T01:19:02.891ZNeelesh Marikhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/NeeleshMarik
<p>Hi Alia,</p>
<p>Your word doc is so meticulously and painstakingly compiled - I appreciate your effort, your process and attention to detail. Thank you. </p>
<p>A few points which come up for me as I read the word doc:</p>
<p></p>
<p>1) I think the paper seeks to create a cosmology for modernity (remember both orange and green are included here, not just orange, as the paper clarifies) that is 'de-spiritualized', to dissolve emotional barriers to understanding and acceptance. So yes it is a…</p>
<p>Hi Alia,</p>
<p>Your word doc is so meticulously and painstakingly compiled - I appreciate your effort, your process and attention to detail. Thank you. </p>
<p>A few points which come up for me as I read the word doc:</p>
<p></p>
<p>1) I think the paper seeks to create a cosmology for modernity (remember both orange and green are included here, not just orange, as the paper clarifies) that is 'de-spiritualized', to dissolve emotional barriers to understanding and acceptance. So yes it is a downward translation, not an upward one (from blue).</p>
<p></p>
<p>2) I think both <strong>oneness</strong> and <strong>non-dual</strong> (including slight differences between their meanings, as you narrate) won't do as terms in the modernist cosmology, because they've already accumulated some spiritual baggage which anyone without causal energy (or even subtle energy) access will tend to reject. May be terms like <strong>whole-brained awareness, subject-object move, deep thinking, root-cause understanding, embodied response</strong> etc will need to come into the modernist cosmology. <strong>Formative causation</strong> is a good one, though a bit heavy. There is an evolutionary movement with language as well, on what is fresh and what is passe. Eventually these terms may also acquire some baggage, especially if they aren't understood well, and will have to make way for new ones. </p>
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<p>3) More than words though, pattern diagrams carry greater power, I intuit. So the subsequent effort beyond this paper, would be to analyse how the 56 patterns (Peter Senge uses a term called 'system archetypes', albeit in a different context) could be used to create a <em>modernist dictionary</em> of sorts, that generate holistic and unitive UL and LL meanings and 'feelings'. Therein lies the power of a semiotic process, because it is simultaneously descriptive and enactive.</p> P.S. for readers here, it mig…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-08:5301756:Comment:527622013-11-08T00:50:33.543ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>P.S. for readers here, it might be easier to start with the word doc, which is a narrative commentary on my main points. The pdf is full of "popcorn" comments!</p>
<p>P.S. for readers here, it might be easier to start with the word doc, which is a narrative commentary on my main points. The pdf is full of "popcorn" comments!</p> I wrote many comments directl…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-07:5301756:Comment:527532013-11-07T18:42:02.142ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>I wrote many comments directly on the pdf of Tim's paper, and also a Word doc commentary, and both are too long to copy in here. If anyone cares to wade through them,here they are via Dropbox link. I will be back to this discussion to catch up on the 31 replies as soon as I can!!…</p>
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<p>I wrote many comments directly on the pdf of Tim's paper, and also a Word doc commentary, and both are too long to copy in here. If anyone cares to wade through them,here they are via Dropbox link. I will be back to this discussion to catch up on the 31 replies as soon as I can!!</p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xqelqoq29leck1/1Winton_ITC2013%20with%20comments%20by%20Alia%20Aurami%208-28.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xqelqoq29leck1/1Winton_ITC2013%20with%20comments%20by%20Alia%20Aurami%208-28.pdf</a></p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwc56a429o8wr3v/Alia%20Aurami%20Response%20Tim%20ITC%202013.docx" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwc56a429o8wr3v/Alia%20Aurami%20Response%20Tim%20ITC%202013.docx</a></p>
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<p>I'm not going to leave them in my Dropbox forever, because of space limits, but certainly for some months. </p>
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<p>Would LOOOOVE to have comments on my comments!!!</p> I love the idea, and have pro…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-07:5301756:Comment:528342013-11-07T07:18:33.612ZGlistening Deepwaterhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/GlisteningDeepwater
<p>I love the idea, and have proposed similar myself over the course of time, these processes are wholly dependant upon participants being willing and dare I say it, devoted to, the process - no amount of 'moderation' will accomplish the desired outcome.</p>
<p>The questions I have been left with after several attempts in this direction is, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions (compelling incentives) to create successful enactment of any or all of these proposed methodologies for…</p>
<p>I love the idea, and have proposed similar myself over the course of time, these processes are wholly dependant upon participants being willing and dare I say it, devoted to, the process - no amount of 'moderation' will accomplish the desired outcome.</p>
<p>The questions I have been left with after several attempts in this direction is, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions (compelling incentives) to create successful enactment of any or all of these proposed methodologies for enhancing the quality and effectiveness of virtual forums?</p> Am copy-pasting a post made o…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-07:5301756:Comment:526472013-11-07T03:38:15.216ZNeelesh Marikhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/NeeleshMarik
<p>Am copy-pasting a post made on the Integral Scholarship and Practice forum: lets see what emerges!</p>
<p></p>
<p>Dwelling on the hypothesis that perspectival disharmony OF, and conflict of methodological approaches TO problems is a bigger bummer <i>than the problems themselves</i>, four technologies come to mind that seek to address the inevitable polarization propensities in ‘we spaces’:</p>
<p>1) The <b>Third side strategy</b> that has been employed in international political imbroglios…</p>
<p>Am copy-pasting a post made on the Integral Scholarship and Practice forum: lets see what emerges!</p>
<p></p>
<p>Dwelling on the hypothesis that perspectival disharmony OF, and conflict of methodological approaches TO problems is a bigger bummer <i>than the problems themselves</i>, four technologies come to mind that seek to address the inevitable polarization propensities in ‘we spaces’:</p>
<p>1) The <b>Third side strategy</b> that has been employed in international political imbroglios with seemingly impressive results.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/william_ury.html">http://www.ted.com/talks/william_ury.html</a></p>
<p>2) The <b>Integrative Decision Making</b> governance process from Holacracy which seems to resolve the troublesome contradiction between multiple tension-processing (giving <i>everyone</i> a voice) and getting tyrannized by consensus in organizational contexts.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-9fgSNLDQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-9fgSNLDQ</a></p>
<p>3) The <b>Deep Dialogue process</b> of the Global Dialogue Institute which transforms the monological nature of interactions to dialogical, to open pathways to the <i>Common Ground of the Logos</i>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.globaldialogueinstitute.org/document/a-prologue-to-entering-the-seven-stages-of-deep-dialogue/">http://www.globaldialogueinstitute.org/document/a-prologue-to-entering-the-seven-stages-of-deep-dialogue/</a></p>
<p>4) The <b>Pattern Language Tool</b> of PD that uses a horizontal meta-typological construct to enact meta-meaning and facilitate deep design with and <i>across participants in various stages of development</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/about/introduction/">http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/about/introduction/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now most probably, these technologies or processes are typically used in in-person, physically proximate set-ups. But we do see that global collaboration on a wide range of issues can no longer only rely on that, don’t we?</p>
<p>Can these technologies (or others), either individually or in some <i>onto-choreographed synthesis</i> (Bruce, I owe you for adding to my vocabulary on that one!), be customized for perspectival harmony and generativity in virtual forums?</p>
<p>If so, how about using them to dissolve the ideological blood-clots in the integral community as evidenced in web-forums, as an integral enactment project? Would that qualify as a suitable ‘dojo’ before one gets into the messy world where ‘COG’ diversities are much larger and more challenging? </p> Neelesh,
Certainly a very wor…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-06:5301756:Comment:529152013-11-06T01:00:46.767ZDavidM58http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/DavidM58
<p>Neelesh,</p>
<p>Certainly a very worthwhile project you propose! However, like theurj, I am not a member of Facebook, for a number of reasons (glad I'm not alone). I think it would be a good idea to touch in with Tim and get any suggestions he might have about how to proceed.</p>
<p>Here are my thoughts:</p>
<p>It would be really interesting in seeing PD used in dealing with the eruption of friction that can happen in online forums. I think the first step would be to find a reasonably…</p>
<p>Neelesh,</p>
<p>Certainly a very worthwhile project you propose! However, like theurj, I am not a member of Facebook, for a number of reasons (glad I'm not alone). I think it would be a good idea to touch in with Tim and get any suggestions he might have about how to proceed.</p>
<p>Here are my thoughts:</p>
<p>It would be really interesting in seeing PD used in dealing with the eruption of friction that can happen in online forums. I think the first step would be to find a reasonably trained PD facilitator. The second step would be for the participants feeling tension around a certain issue to come to agreement to commit to work together on using this tool, and that the goal is not to determine "who's right" in regards to the issue causing tension, but rather to explore a process whereby we can see and appreciate the various perspectives held, and to discover a way forward together to better balance and integrate the various perspectives for the greater enduring health of the whole (Tim calls this "perspectival systems thinking"). </p>
<p>In PD, this is called a Source agreement. The pattern <strong><a href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/patterns/source/" target="_blank">Source</a></strong> represents the origin and purpose of an organization, and any learning group coming together will have a better chance of success if there is a clear agreement on the purpose of the organization.</p>
<p>There can be lots of challenges in undertaking a project like this. First would be that this is still a fairly new tool/language, with not a lot of people very fluent. Second, the <a href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/patterns/dynamics/feedback/" target="_blank">feedback</a> given to the group via written words on the screen is very limited and prone to mis-interpreting energy and tone. Third, the timing of peoples input can vary widely (<a href="http://www.patterndynamics.com.au/patterns/rhythm/" target="_blank">Rhythm</a>), and this can be problematic if you're attempting to understand all perspectives and yet move forward in a reasonable manner.</p>
<p>I'm interested, but not sure how much time I would be able to devote to this right now. And I am just now undergoing training - not yet ready for prime time.</p>
<p></p> Bruce and Neelish,
I am not b…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-05:5301756:Comment:526442013-11-05T22:30:44.294ZGlistening Deepwaterhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/GlisteningDeepwater
<p>Bruce and Neelish,</p>
<p>I am not by any means proficient with PD, however I would love to sandbox the approach in a collaborative manner with a test group, so if you would like to join me up, I will contribute what I can. Meanwhile I can offer to host a peer learning journey into a more intimate understanding of the PD 'language' on the site I mentioned earlier <a href="http://metacogs.wordpress.com/">http://metacogs.wordpress.com/</a> if anyone cares to become more involved with the…</p>
<p>Bruce and Neelish,</p>
<p>I am not by any means proficient with PD, however I would love to sandbox the approach in a collaborative manner with a test group, so if you would like to join me up, I will contribute what I can. Meanwhile I can offer to host a peer learning journey into a more intimate understanding of the PD 'language' on the site I mentioned earlier <a href="http://metacogs.wordpress.com/">http://metacogs.wordpress.com/</a> if anyone cares to become more involved with the process :) I set up the site with the intention of holding space for a community of practice to develop methodology and contribute to the theory/practice interface in support of Tim's work, I hope this will support our endeavour to apply our learned skills on the fly, either explicitly stated or implicitly as a facilitative capacity.</p>
<p>Let me know if this is something you would like to do and we can begin :)</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Yes, Mark Forman created a ne…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-11-05:5301756:Comment:527462013-11-05T16:41:39.272ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>Yes, Mark Forman created a new Integral forum a couple days ago called "Integral Scholarship and Practice" (and actually appointed me as an administrator without asking me; but I am happy to do it). I will be happy to post parallel threads here (and vice versa) to keep the groups in communication.</p>
<p>Yes, Mark Forman created a new Integral forum a couple days ago called "Integral Scholarship and Practice" (and actually appointed me as an administrator without asking me; but I am happy to do it). I will be happy to post parallel threads here (and vice versa) to keep the groups in communication.</p>