States, stages, the WC lattice and the fold - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T15:56:44Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/states-stages-the-wc-lattice-and-the-fold?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A73318&%3Bxg_source=activity&%3Bfeed=yes&%3Bxn_auth=no&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWilber of course does discuss…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-09-17:5301756:Comment:773292019-09-17T19:52:23.617ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Wilber of course does discuss states of consciousness in his AQAL model, even though imo he does tend to conflate them with a metaphysical realm. And Hanzi also discusses states in <em>The Listening Society</em> (chapters 12 and 13) as well as depth (chapter 14</span><span>), described as "a person's intimate, embodied acquaintance with subjective states." Depth is "also a kind of spiritual or existential wisdom [...] that you relate more…</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x _1n4g"><span>Wilber of course does discuss states of consciousness in his AQAL model, even though imo he does tend to conflate them with a metaphysical realm. And Hanzi also discusses states in <em>The Listening Society</em> (chapters 12 and 13) as well as depth (chapter 14</span><span>), described as "a person's intimate, embodied acquaintance with subjective states." Depth is "also a kind of spiritual or existential wisdom [...] that you relate more profoundly to more fundamental aspects of reality as it is subjectively experienced."<br/><br/><span class="_3l3x">Granted we can run into wisdom troubles (chapter 15). I appreciate that our "effective value meme" is a syntegration of our complexity, symbolic code, states and depth, each of which has its own "width" (chapter 16), thereby making for a rather interesting mesh. To paraphrase: it seems we're all such a hot mesh.</span><br/><br/><img alt="No photo description available." src="https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70704850_2343845839046800_8548075226552860672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQkKGFEAco2f26i9SfsXEVIg4VcHDMC-NOa47W8lWgw62dq6989u8b2tTua5uRoywgGqAztiJDZ8DpxSLswMedqj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=26eba8eda9f4074915ad430fdb8d8383&oe=5E3CC17D" class="img" width="224" height="210"/><br/></span></span></span></p> I'm guessing Murray discussed…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-09-17:5301756:Comment:771362019-09-17T14:03:31.431ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>I'm guessing Murray discussed the following from his <a href="http://integral-review.org/pdf-template-issue.php?pdfName=vol_15_no_1_murray_postmetaphysics_knowing_and_unknowing_reality.pdf" rel="noopener" target="_blank">IR article</a> in one or both of the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_XSc-gyhhQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2bbIT60idsl6vIXUMdsvlDV0nSBXXpjvx_hV9p0PuMZZDIBK6sB_Xr_k8" rel="noopener" target="_blank">videos</a>. It's…</span></span></span></p>
<p><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>I'm guessing Murray discussed the following from his <a href="http://integral-review.org/pdf-template-issue.php?pdfName=vol_15_no_1_murray_postmetaphysics_knowing_and_unknowing_reality.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">IR article</a> in one or both of the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_XSc-gyhhQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2bbIT60idsl6vIXUMdsvlDV0nSBXXpjvx_hV9p0PuMZZDIBK6sB_Xr_k8" target="_blank" rel="noopener">videos</a>. It's something I explored years ago and in depth in this thread.</span><br/><br/><span>"Human wisdom can be understood in terms of two processes: complexity capacity and spiritual clarity. [...] 'Spiritual clarity' is our term for the incremental results of this unlearning, healing, deconstruction, or 'shadow work.' [...] One can visit earlier states in a controlled fashion without fully 'regressing' to them. For example, in psychotherapy one might be flooded with the memories and feelings of a difficult moment in childhood. One can maintain an adult meta-cognition that allows for a re-interpretation of the memory and a re-integration of suppressed feelings, without fully regressing to the earlier age and action logic. Multiple action-logics can be 'on line' in consciousness simultaneously, though one's mental focus and performance seem to be oriented to one mode in any given moment."</span><br/><br/><span>"Putting all of this together, we can understand spiritually 'advanced' states or realizations of timelessness, spacelessness, and egolessness in terms of one's awareness gaining access to developmentally primitive states of being. Such access is possible when the neurological connections that constitute our constructed experiences of time, space, or ego, are released, seen through, or bypassed to reveal early states of undifferentiated perception. Thus, the growth of wisdom includes both movements of increasing complexity (in understanding interiors and exteriors), and movements of, as Bonnitta Roy calls it, releasing complexity."</span><br/><br/><span>"But even though the insights may feel sublime and profound, from a post-metaphysical perspective, one still does not have license to transform the experience of undifferentiated infant consciousness into a claim about how time and space do not really exist as such in objective reality (we can leave that claim to the scientists). Likewise, one who experiences the, sometimes ecstatically blissful, infant state of undifferentiated merger, might find insights about the nature of self (and about interpersonal realities), but such experiences alone to not give license to claim that one has discovered that the universe is nothing but love (or pure consciousness, etc.). Mystical experiences can thus be understood differently: not as solely 'high' states achieved through access to a metaphysical or spiritual realm, but as access to developmentally early states, closer to the animal world than the adult world, which are then interpreted by the adult mind to reveal meaningful insights."<br/><br/><br/></span></span></span></p> Testing to see if I can edit.tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-02-26:5301756:Comment:755602019-02-26T19:59:30.128ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Testing to see if I can edit.</p>
<p>Testing to see if I can edit.</p> However Bergson viewed intuit…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-02-15:5301756:Comment:755302019-02-15T00:05:41.123ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
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<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">However Bergson viewed intuition and analysis as the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuition_(Bergson)?fbclid=IwAR1gDO_5VzCH0CK_IzPh0O0xAoC2sjq9QuOAE4QmEY9rsUGF6BXqag4N1A0" target="_blank" rel="noopener">absolute versus the relative</a> way of knowing. The former is "a method that aims at getting back to and knowing the things themselves, in all their uniqueness and ineffable originality." This could indeed be Deleuze's criticism of Bergson's metaphysics of presence?<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g" style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">Bryant, L. (2008). <a href="https://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com/?get_group_doc=36%2F1362087066-BryantDifferenceandGivenness.pdf&fbclid=IwAR0yCvNGPKKzKcfP8jOsZ0vB0BxLukHmplfK3q21wTt45w8mJSnTdxHULHM" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Difference and Givenness</a>. On the method of intuition:<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">"We ought not to assume that by 'intuition' Deleuze means the direct and immediate apprehension by a knowing subject of itself, of its conscious states, of other minds, of an e</span>xternal world, of universals, of values, or of rational truths. […] Strangely, then, intuition, for Deleuze, is mediated insofar as it involves a plurality of acts of cognition. […] It must be practiced and performed, that it requires a discipline and 'training,' rather than being an immediate given. In this respect, it is much closer to phenomenological methods of analysis than traditional appeals to intuition. […] What we seek is not difference as it manifests itself between two things, but difference in itself, difference differing from itself, difference as it can only be contained within duration or time unfolding itself" (53-4).<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g" style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">And of course Bryant's <a href="https://larvalsubjects.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/timeofobject-10-tex.pdf?fbclid=IwAR13hYsx0ugfwTJKywK3pf8NW90bTruH3a3l3DUuu4S5nGwLWNaf0RkfQO0" target="_blank" rel="noopener">later work</a> reiterates many of the same themes.<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">"Repeating a line of thought that can already be found in Bergson’s Matter and Memory as well as Deleuze’s subsequent appropriation of Bergson’s thought, Derrida thus argues that th</span>e passage of the now necessarily requires a split within presence, such that presence is never purely present but is always already 'contaminated' from within by absence. […] With Derrida’s resolution to the aporia of succession we thus get the beginnings of an account of the ontological grounds of withdrawal" (4).</span></span></span></span></p>
<p></p> This thread started with Brya…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-02-14:5301756:Comment:755292019-02-14T23:03:04.650ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>This thread started with Bryant on Bergson, so now I ling <a href="https://footnotes2plato.com/2019/02/13/notes-on-deleuzes-bergsonism/?fbclid=IwAR2RZ58mlA0aZMCJSnrTWMB4G73VGQNzOo3V8UBnDtS-tQKxT5IOkQc61lA" rel="noopener" target="_blank">this</a> post of Deleuze on Bergson. Of particular note for now: …</p>
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<p>This thread started with Bryant on Bergson, so now I ling <a href="https://footnotes2plato.com/2019/02/13/notes-on-deleuzes-bergsonism/?fbclid=IwAR2RZ58mlA0aZMCJSnrTWMB4G73VGQNzOo3V8UBnDtS-tQKxT5IOkQc61lA" target="_blank" rel="noopener">this</a> post of Deleuze on Bergson. Of particular note for now: </p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">4.3. Critique of Presentism:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">1. We tend to confuse being with being-present.</span></span> <span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">2. The present is precisely what is not, what is always moving outside itself, always in the process of falling beyond itself, always caught in the act of presentation.</span></span></span></p> Excellent article exemplifyin…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2018-12-22:5301756:Comment:741012018-12-22T16:03:03.790ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Excellent…</span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Excellent <a href="http://emotionalanarchism.com/widening-the-bridges-beyond-consent-and-autonomy-emmi/?fbclid=IwAR31qvY5eMN4iism1X8L7UQjMtpvlVL4vaDMcZ0LLm292rtMm8857GCzGD0" target="_blank" rel="noopener">article</a> exemplifying syntegrity. A brief excerpt follows but the entire article is well worth 15 minutes.</span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">"The first represents the kind of static view of individuals and their connections most often employed in terms like ‘community’. This</span> <span style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;">sees the individual as a complete node unto itself with connections represented as static and uniform. This view is also expanded to create unstable fictions in which every so-called “citizen” is considered to be connected uniformly through nationality or every “woman” is connected through womanhood. But more simply, this is also just when you are planning a get-together and thinking in your head about who is friends with who in a broad overview kind of way.<br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><br style="font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;"/><span style="display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; margin-top: 0px;">"The second image represents the self as slightly more complex and networked but with connections between individuals still essentially uniform. The second model is just a complex self with a static view of its connections with others. This second model can be seen in something like the Dialogical Self theory in psychology, where the networked self is described through the ways in which composite aspects of our psyche dialog internally with each other to create coherence. This theory looks at the voices of all those people and things that influence and comprise us and the ways they live in a micro-society in our minds. This vision recognizes a network of internal nodes (such as these different voices in our heads) forming a dynamic and open-system of information sharing and connectivity seeking to build bridges outside and within itself.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #000000; display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13.2px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">"More complex than the previous images, the third view represents the fully networked self and other. It sees individuals as complex maps and the connections between the self and others as additionally forming dynamic networks of connections. This is more the neurophysiological view. In this view, each of these nodes might represent a neural pathway with a thousand individual neurons inside of it. A proper map could contain every single neuron in a brain and its full network with others or even subatomic quarks. This view represents a kind of Venn-diagram of selves where the individual network system overlaps with an infinitesimal sliver of the other. Another form of this view could be looking at the overlap of the ways we use language wherein our connotations are largely completely distinct but that there is enough overlap for us to communicate meaning."</span></span></p>
<p><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1d2129; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #000000; display: inline; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13.2px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; margin-top: 0px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/465724754?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img width="400" class="align-center" src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/465724754?profile=original&width=400"/></a></span></span></p>
<p></p> This talk is comparing brain…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2018-10-24:5301756:Comment:737612018-10-24T17:08:38.190ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfV-6mmAcg0" rel="noopener" target="_blank">This</a> talk is comparing brain waves to Gebser's structures, starting at 14:55</span></span></span>. <span class=" UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody">Is integral just gamma? (18:30) No, "it's the transparancy of all the structures" (19:20) and "moving between them and holding them simultaneously"…</span></span></span></p>
<p><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfV-6mmAcg0" target="_blank" rel="noopener">This</a> talk is comparing brain waves to Gebser's structures, starting at 14:55</span></span></span>. <span class=" UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody">Is integral just gamma? (18:30) No, "it's the transparancy of all the structures" (19:20) and "moving between them and holding them simultaneously" (19:35).</span></span></span></p> Developing tensegrity in the…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2018-08-28:5301756:Comment:730112018-08-28T17:40:57.884ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Developing tensegrity in the human body. Continuing the last post, here's an example of applying compression and leverage in a Tai Chi form, performed by Master Zeng Chen Dong.</p>
<p><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZmFmNJNL4Yo?wmode=opaque" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
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<p>Developing tensegrity in the human body. Continuing the last post, here's an example of applying compression and leverage in a Tai Chi form, performed by Master Zeng Chen Dong.</p>
<p><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZmFmNJNL4Yo?wmode=opaque" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p> I found a free copy of Synerg…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2018-08-28:5301756:Comment:731142018-08-28T17:26:21.262ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>I found a free copy of <em>Synergetics</em> by Buckminster Fuller <a href="https://fullerfuture.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/buckminsterfuller-synergetics.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>, of particular interest to us syntegralists. The following sections relate to my writing on leverage and compression earlier in this thread…</p>
<p>I found a free copy of <em>Synergetics</em> by Buckminster Fuller <a rel="nofollow" href="https://fullerfuture.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/buckminsterfuller-synergetics.pdf">here</a>, of particular interest to us syntegralists. The following sections relate to my writing on leverage and compression earlier in this thread <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/states-stages-the-wc-lattice-and-the-fold?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A51144" target="_blank" rel="noopener">here</a>.</p>
<p>792.30: Tension and Compression: Everything we call structure is synergetic and exists only as a consequence of interactions between divergent compressional forces and convergent tension forces.</p>
<p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">792:40: Tidal Complementarities: We have demonstrated experimentally that tension and compression always and only coexist. One can be at high tide of visibility and the other coincidentally at</span></span> <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">low tide, or vice versa. These tidal covariables are typical complementarities: They are not mirror images of one another, but must always balance one another complexedly in physical equations.</span></span></p> Actually read the whole thing…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2018-08-14:5301756:Comment:732122018-08-14T23:28:34.771ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g"><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span class="UFICommentBody">Actually read the whole thing, as it critiques philosophy based on Aristotelian necessary and sufficient conditions, later expounded on in <i>Philosophy in the Flesh</i>, copy <a href="http://b-ok.xyz/book/2284772/df186d" rel="nofollow">here</a>. <span class=" UFICommentActorAndBody">It's also a critique of models of hierarchical complexity, which I…</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g"><span class="UFICommentActorAndBody"><span class="UFICommentBody">Actually read the whole thing, as it critiques philosophy based on Aristotelian necessary and sufficient conditions, later expounded on in <i>Philosophy in the Flesh</i>, copy <a rel="nofollow" href="http://b-ok.xyz/book/2284772/df186d">here</a>. <span class=" UFICommentActorAndBody">It's also a critique of models of hierarchical complexity, which I explored in the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/real-and-false-reason" target="_blank" rel="noopener">real/false reason thread</a>. It's why these days I prefer postmetaphysical hier(an)archical synplexity.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>