Saturn Run by John Sanford and Ctein - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T13:56:52Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64123&feed=yes&xn_auth=no"Trending" these days seems t…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-04-07:5301756:Comment:640782016-04-07T19:47:59.925ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>"Trending" these days seems to be interest in greater detail and realism about travel in space and habitation of space craft and planets.</p>
<p>With this book, the Martian book and movie, Neale Stephenson's SevenEves, and probably other science fiction that is contemporaneous with the true and recent 1 year-plus space station astronaut, it doesn't surprise and it does make me smile that TED, the trender-of-almost-cutting-edge, has a pithy presentational sketch for us.</p>
<p>A nice modest…</p>
<p>"Trending" these days seems to be interest in greater detail and realism about travel in space and habitation of space craft and planets.</p>
<p>With this book, the Martian book and movie, Neale Stephenson's SevenEves, and probably other science fiction that is contemporaneous with the true and recent 1 year-plus space station astronaut, it doesn't surprise and it does make me smile that TED, the trender-of-almost-cutting-edge, has a pithy presentational sketch for us.</p>
<p>A nice modest slice through the challenges of human beings' potential adaptation to new worlds of experience beyond planet earth:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_nip_how_humans_could_evolve_to_survive_in_space" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_nip_how_humans_could_evolve_to_survive_in_space</a></p> 'Thinking' like an alien - wh…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-14:5301756:Comment:642422016-03-14T12:31:03.586ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
'Thinking' like an alien - what you say does seem like a good approach. What are the givens, and wondering 'what ifs'.<br />
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I remember that when I heard about your language creation before I was very impressed. You do seem primed with capability and interest to write a book. If you ever can get to it in a full life.<br />
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Part of my free thinking, self-care time this early AM was spent floating around the topic of writing an alien story (not me actually writing :)) and I came to remember more of the…
'Thinking' like an alien - what you say does seem like a good approach. What are the givens, and wondering 'what ifs'.<br />
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I remember that when I heard about your language creation before I was very impressed. You do seem primed with capability and interest to write a book. If you ever can get to it in a full life.<br />
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Part of my free thinking, self-care time this early AM was spent floating around the topic of writing an alien story (not me actually writing :)) and I came to remember more of the obvious of what audience-readers want and need in order to relate. The freedom within mental and mind may be a fine place to start (probably among many) but most people need action and plot line, often hero's journey-like, in order to stay engaged.<br />
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A story probably needs a lot of everyday touch-points, within, for one example of visualizing scope and depth, the AQAL framework, though certainly not necessary.<br />
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If I had an other life to live, and could start with some of what I have gained in this one, I might work on becoming a story-teller, and novelist. You could probably pull it off now :) Jus sayin.<br />
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So your son is deep into other worlds - exciting expansions - hah.<br />
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<cite>Balder said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64241&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64241"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>As I think I mentioned, <em>Saturn Run</em> was the first science fiction novel I've read in probably several decades. I used to read sci-fi and fantasy voraciously, especially in my teens, but I started to shift to other genres (non-fiction and fiction) once I entered college, just dipping into a sci-fi or horror book every now and then. But now that I have a teenage son who enjoys reading sci-fi and fantasy as well, I've started to think about the genre again -- especially since he pushes me every now and then to write a book like the ones he reads...<br/><br/>Now your discussion of <em>Seveneves</em> has me thinking about picking up that book as well. So this may be a gentle easing back in to the genre. (I did also just read Ursula K. LeGuin's book, <em>The Dispossessed</em>, for a book club event about a month ago -- and really enjoyed it. As you recall, her books are often quite stimulating and evocative ... and <em>The Dispossessed</em> touches on themes, especially, that have been recurrent here on IPS, particularly on the anti-capitalism thread).<br/><br/>My approach to "thinking the alien" would likely be similar to yours: either starting from basic physical and biological premises and then imaginatively following out an alternative evolutionary pathway: what would it be like if creatures that communicate through chemical exchanges, or echolocation, crossed an evolutionary threshold into self-consciousness and sapience...? Or what would advanced beings be like if they evolved out of a radically different phylum or kingdom or eco-niche...? But sometimes I've approached such reflections just by interrogating those things I take to be "given" about life -- whatever features and bases seem fundamental or taken for granted -- and then I experiment with "thinking otherwise." (This is what I did with my language experiment years ago, trying to figure out how I could communicate in a nuanced, "full" way, without appealing to nouns or pronouns.) <br/><br/></p>
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</blockquote> As I think I mentioned, Satur…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-14:5301756:Comment:642412016-03-14T05:44:22.070ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>As I think I mentioned, <em>Saturn Run</em> was the first science fiction novel I've read in probably several decades. I used to read sci-fi and fantasy voraciously, especially in my teens, but I started to shift to other genres (non-fiction and fiction) once I entered college, just dipping into a sci-fi or horror book every now and then. But now that I have a teenage son who enjoys reading sci-fi and fantasy as well, I've started to think about the genre again -- especially since he…</p>
<p>As I think I mentioned, <em>Saturn Run</em> was the first science fiction novel I've read in probably several decades. I used to read sci-fi and fantasy voraciously, especially in my teens, but I started to shift to other genres (non-fiction and fiction) once I entered college, just dipping into a sci-fi or horror book every now and then. But now that I have a teenage son who enjoys reading sci-fi and fantasy as well, I've started to think about the genre again -- especially since he pushes me every now and then to write a book like the ones he reads...<br/><br/>Now your discussion of <em>Seveneves</em> has me thinking about picking up that book as well. So this may be a gentle easing back in to the genre. (I did also just read Ursula K. LeGuin's book, <em>The Dispossessed</em>, for a book club event about a month ago -- and really enjoyed it. As you recall, her books are often quite stimulating and evocative ... and <em>The Dispossessed</em> touches on themes, especially, that have been recurrent here on IPS, particularly on the anti-capitalism thread).<br/><br/>My approach to "thinking the alien" would likely be similar to yours: either starting from basic physical and biological premises and then imaginatively following out an alternative evolutionary pathway: what would it be like if creatures that communicate through chemical exchanges, or echolocation, crossed an evolutionary threshold into self-consciousness and sapience...? Or what would advanced beings be like if they evolved out of a radically different phylum or kingdom or eco-niche...? But sometimes I've approached such reflections just by interrogating those things I take to be "given" about life -- whatever features and bases seem fundamental or taken for granted -- and then I experiment with "thinking otherwise." (This is what I did with my language experiment years ago, trying to figure out how I could communicate in a nuanced, "full" way, without appealing to nouns or pronouns.) <br/><br/></p> Back in a day, I read a lot o…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-13:5301756:Comment:640492016-03-13T18:59:08.774ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
Back in a day, I read a lot of science fiction and there are almost no authors who I remember well. However, I can recollect some strange and imaginally surprising thematic turns by Ursula La Guin (sp?)<br></br>
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I think she maybe explored gender and maybe sexuality and there was an intuitive or imaginal believability to them.<br></br>
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Though I have been asserting a predisposition for 'science' fiction as supposedly distinct from fantasy or make believe, I can get that there may be…
Back in a day, I read a lot of science fiction and there are almost no authors who I remember well. However, I can recollect some strange and imaginally surprising thematic turns by Ursula La Guin (sp?)<br/>
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I think she maybe explored gender and maybe sexuality and there was an intuitive or imaginal believability to them.<br/>
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Though I have been asserting a predisposition for 'science' fiction as supposedly distinct from fantasy or make believe, I can get that there may be believable or real-seeming projections, extrapolations, and relatively free-floating, apparently non-grounded possibilities of how aliens might appear.<br/>
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Entertainingly freeing visions must have some merit though they probably couldn't happen that way in the worlds we know of material, energy, and 'fields.'<br/>
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Of course, as I mentioned earlier, a good study of and fidelity to material physics and biological structure within environments of so many parameters and constraints on development would and does seem to lend a veracity to science fictional imaginings of aliens or even humans under unusual conditions.<br/>
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Notice the recent news piece on the astronaut who returned from one year in zero gravity space. His anatomy and physiology did change in small but significant ways, like increased height.<br/>
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As I have cruised through this ideational theme, Bruce, based on your substantial interest and my currently flickering one, I have thought of two areas of imagining aliens other than the obvious physical that could be fun to imagine into. One would be the mental where there may be more degrees of freedom possible with small or large changes in the sustaining and nurturing surround of the alien. I'm no Trekkie but I think that the Star Trek series played quite a lot with that, as I am guessing did others. I would still want there to be visible logical connections to material and energetic reality as we know it, or make a good case for divergence.<br/>
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Another space that I got turning around in within my mind-body is sexuality. It surprised me how potent was my imagining in what I could feel in myself. This could be a fun area of exploratory and embodied imagining. I'll spare y'all one possibility that I imagined that was quite beautiful to feel within :)<br/>
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For now, 'Out.'<br/>
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<cite>Balder said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein#5301756Comment64029"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, there is something both satisfying and enticing about giving us just a few tantalizing hints of the civilization that left behind -- and periodically maintains -- this trans-galactic artifact. A suggestive portrait often is more convincing than a naked, concrete description of the "alien" or "divine" -- which can often disappoint even if fairly creatively imagined. On my side, I've long wanted to write an "alien encounter" novel, so some of what I would like to do was projected onto this book. Since I was young, I have enjoyed trying to imagine my way into the Other, to confront my imagination with the edges of its own possibility, with THAT which can undo its deep moorings. Maybe one day I'll explore this perverse urge through that long-fantasized alien-contact novel..</p>
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</blockquote> Good, Bruce - in case at a gl…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-10:5301756:Comment:642362016-03-10T21:36:24.343ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
Good, Bruce - in case at a glance you thought I drew the alien sketch - I did not. (At least I won't admit to it :)) the artist is identified in the post following the pic, at the link provided. But you may know that already.<br></br>
I have been thinking a little more about this imagining and maybe I'll have more to speculate in the future.<br></br>
Maybe it is 'legitimate' to begin with imagery alone and not wonder whether it is science fiction or science fantasy or something else. I find that a case…
Good, Bruce - in case at a glance you thought I drew the alien sketch - I did not. (At least I won't admit to it :)) the artist is identified in the post following the pic, at the link provided. But you may know that already.<br/>
I have been thinking a little more about this imagining and maybe I'll have more to speculate in the future.<br/>
Maybe it is 'legitimate' to begin with imagery alone and not wonder whether it is science fiction or science fantasy or something else. I find that a case for tighter science as a basis might be made on this website where, for example, it has been asked and discussed, what is real reason and what is false reason. How embodied can one feel the rendering to be, how much has it rested on mainly abstraction.<br/>
Again, maybe a case can be made for the value that could come from imagining in more fantasy ways, silly ways, convenient but provocative ways - perhaps legitimized somewhat by the very fact that human readers are drawn to it. Hmm?<br/>
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<cite>Balder said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64330&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64330"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>:-) Very fun, Ambo. I suddenly got very busy at work this week so haven't been able to respond yet but I will do so this weekend!</p>
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</blockquote> :-) Very fun, Ambo. I sudde…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-10:5301756:Comment:643302016-03-10T17:17:21.337ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>:-) Very fun, Ambo. I suddenly got very busy at work this week so haven't been able to respond yet but I will do so this weekend!</p>
<p>:-) Very fun, Ambo. I suddenly got very busy at work this week so haven't been able to respond yet but I will do so this weekend!</p> And here is the source of thi…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-10:5301756:Comment:641382016-03-10T00:51:16.137ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>And here is the source of this imagination :)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/idaho-shooting-suspect%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98hypersexual%E2%80%99-martian-manifesto-is-a-window-into-an-unraveling-mind/ar-AAgzxoE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnbcrd" target="_blank">http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/idaho-shooting-suspect%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98hypersexual%E2%80%99-martian-manifesto-is-a-window-into-an-unraveling-mind/ar-AAgzxoE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnbcrd</a><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Ambo Suno…</cite></p>
<p>And here is the source of this imagination :)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/idaho-shooting-suspect%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98hypersexual%E2%80%99-martian-manifesto-is-a-window-into-an-unraveling-mind/ar-AAgzxoE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnbcrd" target="_blank">http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/idaho-shooting-suspect%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98hypersexual%E2%80%99-martian-manifesto-is-a-window-into-an-unraveling-mind/ar-AAgzxoE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msnbcrd</a><br/> <br/> <cite>Ambo Suno said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein#5301756Comment64130"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi B -</p>
<p>I want to say that I am getting your ongoing interest in imagining into, fleshing out in word-thought, and placing into an encounter story, alien, with homo sapien. As a child and adult, what a fertile imagination.</p>
<p>Maybe you will write something more about that in the future. Essay, short story, novel, trilogy :)</p>
<p>If you were, now, to begin to articulate a description of an alien, where would you even begin? Where would I begin? Hmm.</p>
<p>I suppose, me beginning now, there could be many potential forms. Hence, in part, the many descriptions in sci-fi and especially sci-fantasy. [Though I am sooo over Star Wars iterations, I may never forget seeing for the first time that totally bizarre first bar scene in Star Wars I. Crazy species variation. Coexisting momentarily in a rambunctious space. What a cinematographic coup.]</p>
<p>I would think that the constituency of alienness and its related appearance and behavior depends and is co-created by the planetary environment's constituency, related to the even larger cosmic environment, obvious and more subtle - logical, no? OK, and an implicit nature of causal - hmm?</p>
<p>Thinking the many things through about the possible environments that might give rise to life, mostly believably, without itemizing at this time the many features like gravity, available materials, and energetic conditions, one could begin to construct a being. Evolution <em>could</em> be used as a template for arranging a history and timeline. If not evolution, what else, without it sounding too mythic and fantastic to sound like "science" fiction?</p>
<p>Maybe I'll stop here. Any thoughts, elaborations, redirections? Anyone?<br/> <br/> <cite>Balder said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64324&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64029"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, there is something both satisfying and enticing about giving us just a few tantalizing hints of the civilization that left behind -- and periodically maintains -- this trans-galactic artifact. A suggestive portrait often is more convincing than a naked, concrete description of the "alien" or "divine" -- which can often disappoint even if fairly creatively imagined. On my side, I've long wanted to write an "alien encounter" novel, so some of what I would like to do was projected onto this book. Since I was young, I have enjoyed trying to imagine my way into the Other, to confront my imagination with the edges of its own possibility, with THAT which can undo its deep moorings. Maybe one day I'll explore this perverse urge through that long-fantasized alien-contact novel..</p>
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</blockquote> Balder said:
Yes, there is…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-10:5301756:Comment:643282016-03-10T00:49:46.001ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p><img alt="" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdE6Cm8VAAAoDcc.jpg" style="width: 100%; top: -84px;"></img> <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Balder said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein#5301756Comment64029"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, there is something both satisfying and enticing about giving us just a few tantalizing hints of the civilization that left behind -- and periodically maintains -- this trans-galactic artifact. A suggestive portrait often is more convincing than a naked, concrete…</p>
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<p><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdE6Cm8VAAAoDcc.jpg" alt="" style="width: 100%; top: -84px;"/><br/> <br/> <cite>Balder said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein#5301756Comment64029"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, there is something both satisfying and enticing about giving us just a few tantalizing hints of the civilization that left behind -- and periodically maintains -- this trans-galactic artifact. A suggestive portrait often is more convincing than a naked, concrete description of the "alien" or "divine" -- which can often disappoint even if fairly creatively imagined. On my side, I've long wanted to write an "alien encounter" novel, so some of what I would like to do was projected onto this book. Since I was young, I have enjoyed trying to imagine my way into the Other, to confront my imagination with the edges of its own possibility, with THAT which can undo its deep moorings. Maybe one day I'll explore this perverse urge through that long-fantasized alien-contact novel..</p>
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</blockquote> Hi B -
I want to say that I a…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-08:5301756:Comment:641302016-03-08T20:41:17.520ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>Hi B -</p>
<p>I want to say that I am getting your ongoing interest in imagining into, fleshing out in word-thought, and placing into an encounter story, alien, with homo sapien. As a child and adult, what a fertile imagination.</p>
<p>Maybe you will write something more about that in the future. Essay, short story, novel, trilogy :)</p>
<p>If you were, now, to begin to articulate a description of an alien, where would you even begin? Where would I begin? Hmm.</p>
<p>I suppose, me beginning…</p>
<p>Hi B -</p>
<p>I want to say that I am getting your ongoing interest in imagining into, fleshing out in word-thought, and placing into an encounter story, alien, with homo sapien. As a child and adult, what a fertile imagination.</p>
<p>Maybe you will write something more about that in the future. Essay, short story, novel, trilogy :)</p>
<p>If you were, now, to begin to articulate a description of an alien, where would you even begin? Where would I begin? Hmm.</p>
<p>I suppose, me beginning now, there could be many potential forms. Hence, in part, the many descriptions in sci-fi and especially sci-fantasy. [Though I am sooo over Star Wars iterations, I may never forget seeing for the first time that totally bizarre first bar scene in Star Wars I. Crazy species variation. Coexisting momentarily in a rambunctious space. What a cinematographic coup.]</p>
<p>I would think that the constituency of alienness and its related appearance and behavior depends and is co-created by the planetary environment's constituency, related to the even larger cosmic environment, obvious and more subtle - logical, no? OK, and an implicit nature of causal - hmm?</p>
<p>Thinking the many things through about the possible environments that might give rise to life, mostly believably, without itemizing at this time the many features like gravity, available materials, and energetic conditions, one could begin to construct a being. Evolution <em>could</em> be used as a template for arranging a history and timeline. If not evolution, what else, without it sounding too mythic and fantastic to sound like "science" fiction?</p>
<p>Maybe I'll stop here. Any thoughts, elaborations, redirections? Anyone?<br/> <br/> <cite>Balder said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64324&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64029"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yes, there is something both satisfying and enticing about giving us just a few tantalizing hints of the civilization that left behind -- and periodically maintains -- this trans-galactic artifact. A suggestive portrait often is more convincing than a naked, concrete description of the "alien" or "divine" -- which can often disappoint even if fairly creatively imagined. On my side, I've long wanted to write an "alien encounter" novel, so some of what I would like to do was projected onto this book. Since I was young, I have enjoyed trying to imagine my way into the Other, to confront my imagination with the edges of its own possibility, with THAT which can undo its deep moorings. Maybe one day I'll explore this perverse urge through that long-fantasized alien-contact novel..</p>
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</blockquote> Yes, I saw Krishnamurti speak…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-07:5301756:Comment:643242016-03-07T18:02:31.663ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>Yes, I saw Krishnamurti speak on a camp-out weekend at Brockwood.</p>
<p>That was on an epic trip from SoCal by Amtrak to my sisters in the northwest, transCanadian railway to Maine for 2 weeks of sensory awareness with Charlotte Selver and Charles Brooks on Monhegan Island, a stop in England for K, before a stay at Adyar Theosophical Society while training at the Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram in Madras with Desikachar, then a weird body-spirit-mind sickness, and a return to the US for…</p>
<p>Yes, I saw Krishnamurti speak on a camp-out weekend at Brockwood.</p>
<p>That was on an epic trip from SoCal by Amtrak to my sisters in the northwest, transCanadian railway to Maine for 2 weeks of sensory awareness with Charlotte Selver and Charles Brooks on Monhegan Island, a stop in England for K, before a stay at Adyar Theosophical Society while training at the Krishnamacharya Yoga Mandiram in Madras with Desikachar, then a weird body-spirit-mind sickness, and a return to the US for whatever, sagging tail between the legs.</p>
<p>Hah. Epic times. Sorta.<br/> <br/> <cite>Balder said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/saturn-run-by-john-sanford-and-ctein?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64030&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64030"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Oh, excellent - thank you. Seveneves has been on my list as well, as you may know. This gives an extra push to pick it up... (And cool about your friend and his Brockwood Park history. I've visited there and used to correspond with them about becoming a teacher there ... )</p>
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