Sam Harris on spiritual experience - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T16:34:53Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/sam-harris-on-spiritual?xg_source=activity&id=5301756%3ATopic%3A5196&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHaving listened to the first…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-09:5301756:Comment:640392016-03-09T18:11:55.746ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Having listened to the first 26 minutes addressing Aziz I'd have to agree that Aziz is antagonistic. But Harris is condescending and indeed rationalizes a lot while trying to dominate the conversation. He also personally insults Aziz frequently under the guise of an impersonal objective stance. Harris is just as much at fault for this conversation going nowhere. So Harris is right about one thing: I wouldn't want to waste my time hearing 4 hours of it.</p>
<p>Having listened to the first 26 minutes addressing Aziz I'd have to agree that Aziz is antagonistic. But Harris is condescending and indeed rationalizes a lot while trying to dominate the conversation. He also personally insults Aziz frequently under the guise of an impersonal objective stance. Harris is just as much at fault for this conversation going nowhere. So Harris is right about one thing: I wouldn't want to waste my time hearing 4 hours of it.</p> Harris responds to the contro…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-09:5301756:Comment:640382016-03-09T17:42:29.255ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Harris responds to the controversy in the first part of <a href="https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/evolving-minds" target="_blank">this</a> podcast. Quite the specious prevaricating Harris, release the debate and let <em>us</em> decide.</p>
<p>Harris responds to the controversy in the first part of <a href="https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/evolving-minds" target="_blank">this</a> podcast. Quite the specious prevaricating Harris, release the debate and let <em>us</em> decide.</p> Hi t - Scanning quickly throu…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-08:5301756:Comment:643252016-03-08T01:41:21.932ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>Hi t - Scanning quickly through the Omir Aziz article from Salon, I found it very interesting. His critiques seemed to have merit though I admit the whole territory is a sort of knot of conundrums in my mind-heart-gut. I feel clearly not qualified to make any valuable critique of Aziz, Harris, or the hot and important related topics.</p>
<p>So this feels educational to me, a bit more 'raw data' in a vast landscape.</p>
<p>Wish I had clear insight that came from a worthy level or kosmic…</p>
<p>Hi t - Scanning quickly through the Omir Aziz article from Salon, I found it very interesting. His critiques seemed to have merit though I admit the whole territory is a sort of knot of conundrums in my mind-heart-gut. I feel clearly not qualified to make any valuable critique of Aziz, Harris, or the hot and important related topics.</p>
<p>So this feels educational to me, a bit more 'raw data' in a vast landscape.</p>
<p>Wish I had clear insight that came from a worthy level or kosmic locale from which I could reliably proffer opinions and suggestions.</p>
<p>Sheesh & hah.<br/> <br/> <cite>theurj said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/sam-harris-on-spiritual?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A64129&xg_source=activity#5301756Comment64129"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>See <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.salon.com/2016/03/07/my_secret_debate_with_sam_harris_a_revealing_4_hour_dialogue_on_islam_racism_free_speech_hypocrisy/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow" target="_blank">this</a> story wherein Harris challenged Omir Aziz to a debate, but only on Harris' very limiting terms that even he admitted had no precedent in debate format. One of those terms was that Harris could have the only copy of the debate and he could refuse to make it pubic if he so chose. The debate so-called lasted for four hours and then Harris refused to release it. Aziz though recalls what he can from it and lambasts Harris further.</p>
<p>Does this type of debate format remind you of anyone?</p>
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</div>
</blockquote> See this story wherein Harris…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-03-07:5301756:Comment:641292016-03-07T23:07:13.759ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>See <a href="http://www.salon.com/2016/03/07/my_secret_debate_with_sam_harris_a_revealing_4_hour_dialogue_on_islam_racism_free_speech_hypocrisy/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this</a> story wherein Harris challenged Omir Aziz to a debate, but only on Harris' very limiting terms that even he admitted had no precedent in debate format. One of those terms was that Harris could have the only copy of the debate and he could refuse to make it pubic…</p>
<p>See <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.salon.com/2016/03/07/my_secret_debate_with_sam_harris_a_revealing_4_hour_dialogue_on_islam_racism_free_speech_hypocrisy/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow" target="_blank">this</a> story wherein Harris challenged Omir Aziz to a debate, but only on Harris' very limiting terms that even he admitted had no precedent in debate format. One of those terms was that Harris could have the only copy of the debate and he could refuse to make it pubic if he so chose. The debate so-called lasted for four hours and then Harris refused to release it. Aziz though recalls what he can from it and lambasts Harris further.</p>
<p>Does this type of debate format remind you of anyone?</p> Sam Harris: Call me maybe. Ce…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-11-28:5301756:Comment:628872015-11-28T18:13:42.309ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Sam Harris: Call me maybe. Cenk Uygur on Sam Harris' hypothetical nuclear first strike against Islam, and how it plays out with Donald Trump.</p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IPMSwKbY5ms?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p>
<p>Sam Harris: Call me maybe. Cenk Uygur on Sam Harris' hypothetical nuclear first strike against Islam, and how it plays out with Donald Trump.</p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IPMSwKbY5ms?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
</p> Could have been a bad swing o…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-11-26:5301756:Comment:631232015-11-26T08:17:46.211Zandrewhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/andrew
<p>Could have been a bad swing on the golf course when he whacked himself on the side of the head with his pitching wedge . Pay attention to your swing plane Mr Harris! </p>
<p>The only one who is calling this whole bloody mess in the mid-east correctly is Hedges when he says , 'no body wants to be occupied'. Christian's, muslims and jews have officially regressed to death cult status ( at least the ones who cheerlead for this lunacy). And it's far more than a battle of memes .</p>
<p>I call…</p>
<p>Could have been a bad swing on the golf course when he whacked himself on the side of the head with his pitching wedge . Pay attention to your swing plane Mr Harris! </p>
<p>The only one who is calling this whole bloody mess in the mid-east correctly is Hedges when he says , 'no body wants to be occupied'. Christian's, muslims and jews have officially regressed to death cult status ( at least the ones who cheerlead for this lunacy). And it's far more than a battle of memes .</p>
<p>I call it the anthropic principle of evil! Friggin' uncanny.</p> Hmm, weird, that's a rather n…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-11-25:5301756:Comment:628802015-11-25T19:21:33.810ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>Hmm, weird, that's a rather narrow way to decide on a suitable candidate... maybe he's letting his personal differences with Chomsky cloud his judgment.</p>
<p>Hmm, weird, that's a rather narrow way to decide on a suitable candidate... maybe he's letting his personal differences with Chomsky cloud his judgment.</p> Harris has jumped the shark w…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-11-25:5301756:Comment:631222015-11-25T17:34:48.079ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Harris has jumped the shark with this one. See <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/sam-harris-id-vote-for-dangerously-deluded-religious-imbecile-ben-carson-over-noam-chomsky/">this</a> article where Harris said: "<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I’d vote for ‘dangerously deluded religious imbecile’ Ben Carson over Noam Chomsky." He's lost sanity if this is the case.</span></span></p>
<p>Harris has jumped the shark with this one. See <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/sam-harris-id-vote-for-dangerously-deluded-religious-imbecile-ben-carson-over-noam-chomsky/">this</a> article where Harris said: "<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I’d vote for ‘dangerously deluded religious imbecile’ Ben Carson over Noam Chomsky." He's lost sanity if this is the case.</span></span></p> Ray Harris:
You find the same…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-05-03:5301756:Comment:609422015-05-03T18:09:45.019ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Ray Harris:</p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>You find the same spectrum of progressive to fundamentalist in all religions and ideologies, so I'm not at all surprised you know (as I do) progressives who identify as Muslim. Many may do so simply because they were born Muslim, just as many people bo</span></span><span><span><span>rn into a faith identify as being of that faith. And there will also be more devout members of that faith who will argue that these…</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p>Ray Harris:</p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>You find the same spectrum of progressive to fundamentalist in all religions and ideologies, so I'm not at all surprised you know (as I do) progressives who identify as Muslim. Many may do so simply because they were born Muslim, just as many people bo</span></span><span><span><span>rn into a faith identify as being of that faith. And there will also be more devout members of that faith who will argue that these progressives are not really living by the principles of that faith.</span> <br/> <span>As for violence. Two points. Islam became dominant on the Arabian peninsula because Mohammed declared war on Jews and Infidels, eventually cleansing it of both. No one disputes this. It was not done 'peacefully'.</span><br/> <br/> <span>In Australia Muslims represent just under 2% of the population, Buddhists just over 2%. Both communities consist of refugees and face similar patterns of discrimination and dislocation, both as the result of US imperialism (there is a large Vietnamese Buddhist population in Australia). Yet it is only the Muslim population that has generated home grown acts of terrorism against Australians. There have been at least 7 domestic terrorist plots uncovered - around 150 Australian Muslims have gone to fight with ISIS. No other ethnic/religious group has given rise to this level of violence. It is an extraordinarily disproportionate amount.</span><br/> <br/> <span>But you sum up the key mistake of many progressives (of which I am one - progressive that is) when you say "we bombed them into the dark ages". 'We' didn't. Large sections of the ME are STILL in the Dark Ages - they never left it. The whole of the Arabian peninsula is still feudal, run by tribal elites. The reason the ME is in such a socio-economic mess is because the Muslim elites failed to embrace secular reform in deference to Islamic idealism - the idea that Islam is the perfect system and doesn't need reform. And because they consider it the perfect system, they believe the solution to the world's problems is Islam. The word Islam is derived from the Arabic 'aslama', which means submission - all anyone need do is submit to Islam.</span><br/> <br/> <span>The problem is this: a significant minority of any Muslim population identifies as Salafist (fundamentalist) and a proportion of those will attempt to wage jihad in their host country. They will also condemn moderate Muslims as apostates and traitors.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>At an individual level you will always find peaceful and gentle Muslims. But we are not talking about individual Muslims, rather about Islam as an ideology. The statistics tell a different story. Currently Islamic nations persecute far mor</span></span><span><span><span>e non-Muslims than non-Muslims persecute Muslims - by a wide margin. And around 80% of all terrorism is committed in the name of Islam. There is simply no current equivalent to Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban and multiple smaller Jihadist groups. Yes, you can always find exceptions, but Islam far out numbers them.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span>I don't know why people play the 'I know peaceful Muslims' card. A percentage of any population is always peaceful and anti-violence. Only about 10% of Germans were card carrying Nazis. Still didn't stop Germany unleashing WW2 did it? Most Germans were peaceful. So? It wasn't the average German that was the problem. Similarly not all Russians or Chinese belong to the Communist Party. That didn't stop the fanatics wreaking havoc.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p> Ray Harris:
I read the debate…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2015-05-03:5301756:Comment:609412015-05-03T18:04:12.284ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Ray Harris:</p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>I read the debate too. I have problems with both Chomsky and Harris. To me Chomsky has failed to make the necessary conceptual leap from a narrow anti-US view of imperialism to a global view that sees imperialism as a universal. This is especially remi</span></span><span><span><span>ss in light of Chinese imperialism.</span>
<span>I agree with Mark that Harris, despite your characterisation…</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p>Ray Harris:</p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>I read the debate too. I have problems with both Chomsky and Harris. To me Chomsky has failed to make the necessary conceptual leap from a narrow anti-US view of imperialism to a global view that sees imperialism as a universal. This is especially remi</span></span><span><span><span>ss in light of Chinese imperialism.</span>
<br />
<span>I agree with Mark that Harris, despite your characterisation</span> <a class="profileLink" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/wharryman?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">William Harryman</a><span>, is actually very knowledgeable about the differences between the various radical and moderate factions. I find Chomsky downplays the serious problem of a resurgent Islamic imperialism - and fails to acknowledge that Islam attempted an imperialist conquest of Europe before 'The West' ever attempted an imperialist conquest of the ME.</span><br />
<br />
<span>Also, given Harris's clear identification with liberal causes, it is inaccurate and slanderous to call him a Neocon.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span>Harryman:</span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>politically, Harris fits the neocon definition in this country - if he is associated with liberal causes (other than taking hallucinogens) I guess I am not aware of them, mostly because I tune him out as a rule - although I did like Waking Up.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>Harris:</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span>He has addressed the neocon slander - but then, as you say, you tune out...</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>Over a decade ago I did a serious study of terrorism and Islamism, long before I encountered Sam's writing. We have generally come to the same conclusions. I too, bemoan the 'allegedly' progressive voices who fail to see that Islam is a threat to progr</span></span><span><span><span>essive values.</span>
<br />
<span>We are moving towards marriage equality in Australia, yet every single imam and Muslim community leader in Australia has opposed this progressive reform.</span><br />
<br />
<span>You have a massive problem with the religious right in the US - and most Muslims sit in that same camp on most issues.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span>Harryman:</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span><span><span><span><span class="UFICommentBody"><span><span>I don't disagree with that last statement,</span> <a class="profileLink" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/novelactivist?hc_location=ufi" target="_blank">Ray</a> <span>- Islam like Christianity tends to be a conservative faith on social issues - but I have very liberal Muslim friends who are not part of the right, just as I have liberal Christian friends, and these peopl</span></span><span><span><span>e support marriage equality (a BIG issue in the states right now), as well as supporting fair wages and wage equality between the sexes</span> <span>when people like Harris claim that Islam is an inherently violent religion, I disagree, just as I disagree that Judeo-Christianity is an inherently violent religion - it certainly has been, and even today I heard about a Christian pastor telling a woman who was raped that she should be stoned to death for allowing that to happen to her - not that much different from the horror stories that come out of the Middle East</span> <span>the Muslims I know are peaceful progressive people - living in a nice house in Tucson might lead one to different beliefs than living in a mud-walled shack in Iraq - there is a POWERFUL correlation between worldviews/beliefs and socio-economic status - it's easy to be liberal with a good job and nice quality of life, much less so in poverty, with intermittent electricity, lack of clean water, unreal gas lines, and on and on - if we want to make the Middle East more peaceful, then we need to help them build lives that are worth protecting, worth living for</span> <span>quality of life matters - in the eyes of many radical Jihadis, their poor quality of life is our fault - we bombed them into the dark ages - this is some of what Harris misses in my opinion.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<p></p>