Peter Kingsley: Lost History of the West? - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T15:58:15Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/peter-kingsley-lost-history?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A17610&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOrperhaps its a version of th…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-08:5301756:Comment:188052011-06-08T01:17:20.395Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Orperhaps its a version of the "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Great Man Theory</a>" of history, an offshoot of the Romantic notion of the "Genius."</p>
<p><br></br>(I notice that Hegel talks about the "agents of the Weltgiest." That's sure to get the conspiracy-mongers going, as I'm sure they are <em>secret</em> agents, no less. :-)<br></br> <cite>kelamuni said:…</cite></p>
<p>Orperhaps its a version of the "<a rel="nofollow" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory" target="_blank">Great Man Theory</a>" of history, an offshoot of the Romantic notion of the "Genius."</p>
<p><br/>(I notice that Hegel talks about the "agents of the Weltgiest." That's sure to get the conspiracy-mongers going, as I'm sure they are <em>secret</em> agents, no less. :-)<br/> <cite>kelamuni said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/comment/show?id=5301756%3AComment%3A17669&xn_out=json&firstPage=0&lastPage=1&_=1307491374276&xg_token=d932d86b1c98f027a27a19c458c683b3#5301756Comment17669"><div><p>Ya, I thought the Illuminati were out to control us, not free us. (?) :-)</p>
<p>Thanks for the overview and review Balder. I'd like to give it a read, as I used to read about the roots of early Greek philosophy at one time.</p>
<p>I'm not sure who else has also said that it is the ecstatic mystics who always herald in the "new paradigm," other than the Theosophists and their idea of the Hidden Masters, but it seems to me that this idea is not new.</p>
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</blockquote> Ya, I thought the Illuminati…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-08:5301756:Comment:176692011-06-08T00:02:56.920Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Ya, I thought the Illuminati were out to control us, not free us. (?) :-)</p>
<p>Thanks for the overview and review Balder. I'd like to give it a read, as I used to read about the roots of early Greek philosophy at one time.</p>
<p>I'm not sure who else has also said that it is the ecstatic mystics who always herald in the "new paradigm," other than the Theosophists and their idea of the Hidden Masters, but it seems to me that this idea is not new.</p>
<p>Ya, I thought the Illuminati were out to control us, not free us. (?) :-)</p>
<p>Thanks for the overview and review Balder. I'd like to give it a read, as I used to read about the roots of early Greek philosophy at one time.</p>
<p>I'm not sure who else has also said that it is the ecstatic mystics who always herald in the "new paradigm," other than the Theosophists and their idea of the Hidden Masters, but it seems to me that this idea is not new.</p> Lol, when you are on the plan…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:184142011-06-07T17:48:42.083ZPhilip Woottonhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_06u2rw0qp90ra
Lol, when you are on the plane be careful not to get carried away in the circling, purifying, and cleansing trance walking which becomes nondual with militray action for the cleansing of the old seed for the appearance of the new seed so that you do not decide to take out, say, the White House or the Vatican. Of course you wouldn't do this if you were the bringer of the new seed as you would need to stick around for awhile. The book was a good read for me also, but when the cleansing is…
Lol, when you are on the plane be careful not to get carried away in the circling, purifying, and cleansing trance walking which becomes nondual with militray action for the cleansing of the old seed for the appearance of the new seed so that you do not decide to take out, say, the White House or the Vatican. Of course you wouldn't do this if you were the bringer of the new seed as you would need to stick around for awhile. The book was a good read for me also, but when the cleansing is related to barbaric militarism as with Ghengas Khan who also was apparently incarnated with Apollo, what are the methods to be used for the transition from old to new? The times have changed some, but militarism or mind control by the rich and powerful seems to still be the mode of the mighty changers. It plays out as manifest destiny of the house on the hill bringing the glorifed goodness and state elitist welfare capitalism to all with the sword leading the way. Obama seems to talk green and act orange to red. I guess if the elites are second tier, then maybe to change would be less militarily driven. When spirit meets politics and economy all hell can break loose. The book doesn't address this, but makes one think about it. Hi, Lol, yes, I do think it's…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:188022011-06-07T16:25:44.811ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
Hi, Lol, yes, I do think it's a good read, and an attractive little book, overall. I'd definitely recommend it for an airport departure lounge time-passer (it's short enough that you might finish it in one read, and it might put you in an altered state!).
Hi, Lol, yes, I do think it's a good read, and an attractive little book, overall. I'd definitely recommend it for an airport departure lounge time-passer (it's short enough that you might finish it in one read, and it might put you in an altered state!). tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:188012011-06-07T16:21:45.781ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
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<p><a href="http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fektOY-W6Dw/TWF3ftszxII/AAAAAAAAKDg/O_BBsXeBG1s/s320/homer-doh.jpg&imgrefurl=http://listsgalore.blogspot.com/2011/02/doh.html&usg=__ZFedYLvagvZUfQHqU12Prnm7oyI=&h=270&w=270&sz=76&hl=en&start=2&sig2=Y3vDkzJ98OsYd05WhGMCGw&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=jXqbYVe-F_pXXM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=113&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dd%2527oh!%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1237%26bih%3D364%26tbm%3Disch&ei=u0_uTdvbJIOiuQOH4p2XBg" id="apf1" name="apf1"><img width="113" src="http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3fgHQluKd0FySSTSkaEn9jS_b1hnJ2wbNcSiyhAv9dC44U8DDXEPMoVs" height="113" style="vertical-align: bottom; border: #ccc 1px solid; padding: 1px;"/></a></p> Thanks, Bruce, for following…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:187012011-06-07T16:21:21.637ZLolhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/marigpa
<p>Thanks, Bruce, for following through with this, and for this review. In the youtube vids I had found myself a little put off by the implied i-knowlier-than-thou-ness of his style of delivery, but it does sound like it might be a good book to read in an airport departure lounge.</p>
<p>"Who .... Kingsley?" You never know, he might have seen the Kumare documentary.</p>
<p>Thanks, Bruce, for following through with this, and for this review. In the youtube vids I had found myself a little put off by the implied i-knowlier-than-thou-ness of his style of delivery, but it does sound like it might be a good book to read in an airport departure lounge.</p>
<p>"Who .... Kingsley?" You never know, he might have seen the Kumare documentary.</p> Come on, you know the answer,…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:176672011-06-07T16:11:08.296ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
Come on, you know the answer, it is within you. Relax, focus, open...it's Kennilingus! Worship at the altar of the kennilingam...<br/>
Come on, you know the answer, it is within you. Relax, focus, open...it's Kennilingus! Worship at the altar of the kennilingam...<br/> This past weekend, I picked u…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-06-07:5301756:Comment:184132011-06-07T15:03:44.522ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>This past weekend, I picked up a copy of <em>A Story Waiting to Pierce You</em>. I found Kingsley's writing style to be hyperbolic but poetic and entertaining, and I enjoyed the book up until the last chapter, where he seemed (to me) to take a flying leap into nonsense. Or, rather, to take an unfounded leap into mystical speculation. It is in this chapter that he claims that nothing at all happens in the world except by ecstatic direction: cultures change, history is moved, only at the…</p>
<p>This past weekend, I picked up a copy of <em>A Story Waiting to Pierce You</em>. I found Kingsley's writing style to be hyperbolic but poetic and entertaining, and I enjoyed the book up until the last chapter, where he seemed (to me) to take a flying leap into nonsense. Or, rather, to take an unfounded leap into mystical speculation. It is in this chapter that he claims that nothing at all happens in the world except by ecstatic direction: cultures change, history is moved, only at the hands of a few knowing ecstatics.</p>
<p><br/>Up until that point, I thought he did a pretty good job (between his poetic-hyperbolic narrative and his extensive scholarly footnotes) making the case that Abaris' origin can be traced to the nomadic tribes of the Mongolian plateau (the Avars), and that his story and his actions can best be understood when we trace them back to Mongolian shamanic and pre-Buddhist traditions. He writes very poetically about the sacred role of the arrow among these tribes, including the tradition of carrying it around (and being carried by it, in trance); about a practice of circumambulating the land with an arrow in order to purify it, which he argues is what Abaris was doing as he walked into Greece in a trance; about the dual meaning of Skywalker (both 'arrow' and 'shamanic journeyer' in Mongolian and Tibetan languages); about the relation between the shape of Abaris' arrow and the later Tibetan phurba, which he argues is similarly of Mongolian origin; about the relationship between Hyberborrea and Mongolia, and the Hyperborrean/Mongolian origins of Apollo (Apollo's origin story tracing to Hyperborrea, and his mother being born of a wolf, while the Mongols claim that their whole tribe was born of the wolf); etc, etc. He makes many mythological, historical, and archeological links and crafts a pretty compelling story. </p>
<p><br/>One of his bigger claims (from my perspective) is that Pythagoras was a tulku, and was recognized as such by Abaris. He makes the case that reincarnation is not just a doctrine found in India and Greece, but among the Mongols too, as well as among some Amerindian tribes. And he argues that Abaris the Avar recognized Pythagoras as a living incarnation of Apollo, following methods (described in the Greek texts) which are remarkably similar (he argues) to the methods currently used today by Mongolian and Tibetan Buddhists to recognize a tulku or reincarnation.</p>
<p><br/>Kingsley may or may not be right about the connections he is making (he does provide extensive footnotes to support his poetically delivered claims, so at least he leaves a trail for those interested and able to follow it), but I was at least willing to go along with the story to see where it led. (I was intrigued by some passing links he made to Bon culture and Zhang Zhung, since that is the lineage I trained in -- particularly the teachings of the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud). But when he got to the last chapter, he pulled out the stops and started making bold metaphysical claims about the nature of reality and the origins of history and I felt rather let down. The nutshell: ecstatic mystics are needed to bring new worlds into existence, and to bring old ones to a close. And there are only two kinds of people in existence: ordinary folks, the majority, who work in samsara, chasing the wheel of time, and the very few who work behind the scenes from pure ecstatic stillness and bring the future into being. The Western culture was brought into being by such a mystic (Pythagoras), but now we have forgotten this sacred origin, and so it is time for this world to be dismantled and a new one to be birthed by another mystic. </p>
<p><br/>Who .... Kingsley?</p> In reading the last post in t…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-05-28:5301756:Comment:177192011-05-28T20:45:46.125ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>In reading the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/2012-illuminati-etc?page=2&commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A17532&x=1#5301756Comment17532" target="_self">last post</a> in the 2012 thread it reminds me of the GD stuff, how when I got to the portal of the inner order and read this stuff I just thought, like Caputo speaking for Lyotard in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/caputos-sunday-sermon-radical" target="_self">this thread</a>,…</p>
<p>In reading the <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/2012-illuminati-etc?page=2&commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A17532&x=1#5301756Comment17532" target="_self">last post</a> in the 2012 thread it reminds me of the GD stuff, how when I got to the portal of the inner order and read this stuff I just thought, like Caputo speaking for Lyotard in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/caputos-sunday-sermon-radical" target="_self">this thread</a>, I <em>"just don’t believe that stuff anymore and [I'm] going to spend [my] time doing something more constructive."</em> The last posts in the Caputo thread emphasize that it's not about doing away with a tradition but merely "reinventing" it. I re-joined the GD over a year ago with that intent but the work is just so contaminated to its core with the metaphysical that it cannot be merely opened up. At least I couldn't do it, instead being drawn back into the same type of new agey, theosophical, apocalyptic and what I now consider nonsense to continue with it, so gave up up again.</p>
<p>Unless of course what I'm doing here and at my blog is indeed my own idosyncretic way of reinvention. I'm trying ways to include a lot of different schools of though and practice, including my hermetic training, in an individual, singular way. Granted it's not safe and secure like being part of an Order or a Church or a Religion but it's the way I have to go. As in the Caputo thread I am the "singular" situation which is different than all others, while nonetheless being the same in a general way. And I really have no other choice but to be me in this way, to carve my own path through the jungle, and hope that at least in some small way it provides some benefit to those traveling the well-worn byways of metaphysics. <em><br/></em></p> If of interest, the Open Sour…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2011-05-28:5301756:Comment:175262011-05-28T13:52:30.535ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
If of interest, the <a href="http://www.osogd.org/" target="_blank">Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn</a> has made available some of the original Order's documents. <a href="http://www.osogd.org/library/rolls.html" target="_blank">This link</a> is to the Flying Rolls. <a href="http://www.osogd.org/library/rolls/roll14.html" target="_blank">Flying Roll XIV</a> might be pertinent, "talismans and flashing tablets." Of more general interest, Zalweski's book…
If of interest, the <a href="http://www.osogd.org/" target="_blank">Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn</a> has made available some of the original Order's documents. <a href="http://www.osogd.org/library/rolls.html" target="_blank">This link</a> is to the Flying Rolls. <a href="http://www.osogd.org/library/rolls/roll14.html" target="_blank">Flying Roll XIV</a> might be pertinent, "talismans and flashing tablets." Of more general interest, Zalweski's book <em><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/32496075/Secret-Inner-Order-Rituals-of-the-Golden-Dawn-by-Patrick-J-Zalewski-KnowledgeBorn-Library" target="_blank">Secret Inner Order Rituals of the Golden Dawn</a></em> in on Scribd for free.<br/>