Mahendra Trivedi (and Ken Wilber) - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T10:05:49Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/mahendra-trivedi-and-ken?feed=yes&xn_auth=noBalder said:
Apparently one o…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-07-23:5301756:Comment:506202013-07-23T19:15:20.484Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Balder said:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/mahendra-trivedi-and-ken?id=5301756%3ATopic%3A1783&page=9#5301756Comment48639"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>.</p>
<p>I think one reason Wilber has endorsed Trivedi is…</p>
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<p>Balder said:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/mahendra-trivedi-and-ken?id=5301756%3ATopic%3A1783&page=9#5301756Comment48639"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>.</p>
<p>I think one reason Wilber has endorsed Trivedi is that Wilber has (at least sometimes) felt an improvement in his own health or comfort level after receiving a Trivedi blessing...</p>
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<div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>That's fine if he felt some sort of placebo-effect that made him feel better, but this is also good example of the unreliability of subjective first-person accounts substituting for objective double blind trials.</p>
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</div> I don't think Ken does confus…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-07-23:5301756:Comment:506182013-07-23T16:26:33.924ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>I don't think Ken does confuse the levels, because there is much on the psychic level which is still within samsara and as far as I recall, he is aware of that.</p>
<p>However, you make a great point, which in my languaging is that there is indeed "super-human" power on what I call the Astral Plane, but the consciousnesses on the astral plane, can be within the illusion of separation. That is why, as you said, true teachers counsel not focusing on or getting attached to, siddhis, which are…</p>
<p>I don't think Ken does confuse the levels, because there is much on the psychic level which is still within samsara and as far as I recall, he is aware of that.</p>
<p>However, you make a great point, which in my languaging is that there is indeed "super-human" power on what I call the Astral Plane, but the consciousnesses on the astral plane, can be within the illusion of separation. That is why, as you said, true teachers counsel not focusing on or getting attached to, siddhis, which are mere side-effects.</p>
<p>I have drafted a long paper on which human endeavors and "powers" come primarily from the astral plane. Perhaps I will put it forth in IPM as a blog....</p>
<p>And I think I forgot to include mantras, so thanks for that. But my list is VERY long, and contains some items which most "NewAgers" really don't want to hear, haha.<br/> <br/> <cite>max miller said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/mahendra-trivedi-and-ken?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A50455&xg_source=msg_com_forum#5301756Comment48553"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> </p>
<p>IMO</p>
<p>this just shows again how wilber is fundamentally mistaken and confused.his confusion shows up in his endorsements :adida ,andrew cohen,gafni,.... trivedi is just his latest plunder.NOW :any run of the mill god has more power then the average human BUT ,as buddha taught, the god realms are not liberated from the samsaric circle, they are just another temporary realm of the samsaric circle. once the cause runs out ,the next stop is hell, so , not a good idea. ken is ,as ususal, (and since a long time too) conflating the higher of the 33 deva realms with enlightenment.anybody who has real knowledge can see this already on wilbers theories.so due to them it becomes difficult to classify people who have some "special" power, due to dubious reasons, maybe even some special relationship with a higher kind of being (is in india quite common actually, with mantras this is very possible). unless one understands that well being and power has nothing to do with real enlightment (they are just secondary siddhis , nice to have, but if not handle properly , a great obstacle).</p>
<p>but of course, if one thinks, as ken does lately, that the european filosofy eggheads have understood more about enlightment then the tantric mahasiddhas ,: )) if one can´t see even the fundametal difference between zen and tantra . :) then ...we ll then naturally one also falls for any decent indian conman like trivedi, HAHAHA. i guess if the local fakir shows up with the old rope trick , ken will topple over and shout: wow look here isnt that great, too.</p>
<p>may all be well</p>
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<p>mm</p>
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</blockquote> I felt energized and refreshe…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-07-23:5301756:Comment:504552013-07-23T09:58:59.217Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>I felt energized and refreshed after reading theurg's link... coincidence? Me thinks not!</p>
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<p>I felt energized and refreshed after reading theurg's link... coincidence? Me thinks not!</p>
<p></p> "Apparently one of the U.S. l…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-11:5301756:Comment:483852013-06-11T00:31:49.650ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>"Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>."</p>
<p>It's not like actual evidence to the contrary is going to thwart this metaphysical belief system. Why, it's a plot and the <em>real</em> results are being suppressed. Or if you're a kennilinguist, then you <em>and</em> your instruments cannot perceive its reality because…</p>
<p>"Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>."</p>
<p>It's not like actual evidence to the contrary is going to thwart this metaphysical belief system. Why, it's a plot and the <em>real</em> results are being suppressed. Or if you're a kennilinguist, then you <em>and</em> your instruments cannot perceive its reality because it's on a higher plane of existence, etc.</p>
IMO
this just shows again h…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:485532013-06-10T18:50:30.047Z13w6cecaz7s7hhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_13w6cecaz7s7h
<p> </p>
<p>IMO</p>
<p>this just shows again how wilber is fundamentally mistaken and confused.his confusion shows up in his endorsements :adida ,andrew cohen,gafni,.... trivedi is just his latest plunder.NOW :any run of the mill god has more power then the average human BUT ,as buddha taught, the god realms are not liberated from the samsaric circle, they are just another temporary realm of the samsaric circle. once the cause runs out ,the next stop is hell, so , not a good idea. ken is…</p>
<p> </p>
<p>IMO</p>
<p>this just shows again how wilber is fundamentally mistaken and confused.his confusion shows up in his endorsements :adida ,andrew cohen,gafni,.... trivedi is just his latest plunder.NOW :any run of the mill god has more power then the average human BUT ,as buddha taught, the god realms are not liberated from the samsaric circle, they are just another temporary realm of the samsaric circle. once the cause runs out ,the next stop is hell, so , not a good idea. ken is ,as ususal, (and since a long time too) conflating the higher of the 33 deva realms with enlightenment.anybody who has real knowledge can see this already on wilbers theories.so due to them it becomes difficult to classify people who have some "special" power, due to dubious reasons, maybe even some special relationship with a higher kind of being (is in india quite common actually, with mantras this is very possible). unless one understands that well being and power has nothing to do with real enlightment (they are just secondary siddhis , nice to have, but if not handle properly , a great obstacle).</p>
<p>but of course, if one thinks, as ken does lately, that the european filosofy eggheads have understood more about enlightment then the tantric mahasiddhas ,: )) if one can´t see even the fundametal difference between zen and tantra . :) then ...we ll then naturally one also falls for any decent indian conman like trivedi, HAHAHA. i guess if the local fakir shows up with the old rope trick , ken will topple over and shout: wow look here isnt that great, too.</p>
<p>may all be well</p>
<p></p>
<p>mm</p> It looks like the essay linke…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:486402013-06-10T18:15:00.763ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>It looks like the essay linked in the first post has been taken off of Trivedi's site. But here's <a href="http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/637" target="_blank">a Ken Wilber blog</a> on the same topic.</p>
<p>It looks like the essay linked in the first post has been taken off of Trivedi's site. But here's <a href="http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/637" target="_blank">a Ken Wilber blog</a> on the same topic.</p> Wow, Layman, all of your ques…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:484672013-06-10T17:20:16.516ZRev. O.M. Bastethttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/xn/detail/u_1rciwzlli1nrh
<p>Wow, Layman, all of your questions and observations really speak to my personal experience of Trivedi, in presentations and in private session of a friend which I sat in on. I long ago concluded that people who are not very evolved in their embodiment can be awesome "transmitters" to me, in my experience around them. They can talk what I consider BS (e.g. Ammachi) or they can appear pretty egocentric (e.g. Trivedi) and still be broadcasting what I consider subtle or higher-vibrational…</p>
<p>Wow, Layman, all of your questions and observations really speak to my personal experience of Trivedi, in presentations and in private session of a friend which I sat in on. I long ago concluded that people who are not very evolved in their embodiment can be awesome "transmitters" to me, in my experience around them. They can talk what I consider BS (e.g. Ammachi) or they can appear pretty egocentric (e.g. Trivedi) and still be broadcasting what I consider subtle or higher-vibrational energies which can have amazing effects on a variety of living things <strong>which have the ability to resonate with them</strong>.</p> I hope it has helped him.
I e…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:483802013-06-10T17:14:39.225ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>I hope it has helped him.</p>
<p>I explored the Trivedi effect last year and can report that I experienced a particular energetic stimulation. Would that have been greater if I had paid him to intend in my direction? Is it related to him at all? Am I generating it internally? Am I accessing a generic energy field merely using him as a prop? Are different people differently capable of being such props? Or does one merely have to be one who proposes the possibility of energetic transmission?…</p>
<p>I hope it has helped him.</p>
<p>I explored the Trivedi effect last year and can report that I experienced a particular energetic stimulation. Would that have been greater if I had paid him to intend in my direction? Is it related to him at all? Am I generating it internally? Am I accessing a generic energy field merely using him as a prop? Are different people differently capable of being such props? Or does one merely have to be one who proposes the possibility of energetic transmission? These questions must always be in play when experimenting with satsangs, darshans, blessings, conductivity, etc.</p>
<p>Having just watched "The Quantum Activist" (about Dr. Amit Goswami) I am struck by the "pre-integral" style of neo-Hindoo presenters. Typically they <strong>conflate subjectivity, subtle energy & divinity</strong>. This is is the traditional Vedic move and it notably jumbles their communication... intentionally or incidentally creating an atmosphere of idealism which can be (intentionally or incidentally) exploited by various personal drives... all while higher grades of energy are (or are not) being exchanged.</p> Apparently one of the U.S. la…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:486392013-06-10T17:06:02.525ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>.</p>
<p>I think one reason Wilber has endorsed Trivedi is that Wilber has (at least sometimes) felt an improvement in his own health or comfort level after receiving a Trivedi blessing...</p>
<p>Apparently one of the U.S. labs that tested Trivedi and tried to replicate the results posted on his website was <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/tms9/trivedi.html" target="_blank">largely unable to do so</a>.</p>
<p>I think one reason Wilber has endorsed Trivedi is that Wilber has (at least sometimes) felt an improvement in his own health or comfort level after receiving a Trivedi blessing...</p> The link to Ken's remarks is…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-06-10:5301756:Comment:484642013-06-10T16:55:41.720ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
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<li>The link to Ken's remarks is not linking. <a href="http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/637" target="_blank">Here</a> is an alternative.</li>
<li>It is difficult in the internest to determine the facts relative to the "trivedi effect" on biological and mineral structures.</li>
<li>Combining the information about positive, negative and non-effects of Trivedi's blessing-conductivity should help us form a more complex impression of what is going on. As with other transmission masters there…</li>
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<li>The link to Ken's remarks is not linking. <a href="http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/637" target="_blank">Here</a> is an alternative.</li>
<li>It is difficult in the internest to determine the facts relative to the "trivedi effect" on biological and mineral structures.</li>
<li>Combining the information about positive, negative and non-effects of Trivedi's blessing-conductivity should help us form a more complex impression of what is going on. As with other transmission masters there is reason to believe the effects, when real and powerful, are not exclusively benevolent.</li>
<li>Why is Ken speaking out? Has he been uniquely impressed by the caliber of the scientific research or only that there is some? And to what degree is the old ritual of mutual "shout outs" in play (Trivedi also mentions and praises Wilber)?</li>
<li>Does Ken have any justification for his speculation that a "new energy" is involved? Why is this not simply old-fashioned shaktipat? Or does he consider classical energy transmission to count among the emergent energies?</li>
<li>Trivedi clearly has most the qualities we associate with neo-Hindoo transmission masters. Both positive and negative. The beauty of this is that it becomes relatively easy to isolate the interesting bit. Since his philosophy is mediocre, his ethics are dubious, etc. we can focus quite simply on whether and how a materially-effective subtle conductivity might be operating.</li>
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