Generative enclosures, bubbles and magic circles - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-28T17:20:14Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/generative-enclosures-bubbles-and-magic-circles?feed=yes&xn_auth=noSome comments from the FB thr…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2019-03-03:5301756:Comment:755632019-03-03T17:05:53.834ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Some comments from the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/470435939720069/permalink/2018423404921307/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">FB thread</a> on this paper:</p>
<p>John: …</p>
<p>Some comments from the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/470435939720069/permalink/2018423404921307/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">FB thread</a> on this paper:</p>
<p>John: <span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="UFICommentBody _1n4g" style="font-family: inherit;">I am very much enjoying the article . I am up to P6, which has a long quote from a previous article, <a class="profileLink" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none;" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/bruce.alderman.14?fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">Bruce Alderman</a>, which concludes with references to Ferrer , Keller etc. <br/>I would have appreciated it with sections and headings, for easier reading, but I realise that that would be almost impossible with such a free flowing conversation. I ‘ll have more comments later. I am particularly interested at the moment in developing my ideas around “ Integral participative religious pluralism “. I am reading Ferrer’s book Participation and the Mystery. <br/><br/>I know that you would know this , Bruce, but others would not. On page 26, Ferrer says “ in a series of important essays, Alderman offered the most successful attempt yet to reconcile Wilberian and participatory perspectives on enaction and spiritual pluralism. “ I hope he gets to read this latest conversation article.<br/><br/>I think the conversational format is great with <a class="profileLink" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none;" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/liquidsyntax?fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">Layman Pascal</a> and <a class="profileLink" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none;" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002642203712&fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">Edward Berge</a> taking the conversation into deeper and unpredictable directions. I’ll look forward to finishing the article. Time for lunch and a walk.</span></span></span></p>
<p>Bruce: <span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: inherit;"><a name="js_7c" class="profileLink" id="js_7c" style="color: #365899; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none;" dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/john.oneill.5851?fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">John</a>, thank you. I look forward to seeing how you develop your integral participatory religious pluralism. As you’ll see in this paper, I think generative enclosures are intimately related to participatory enactment: generative enclosures are one of the forms and means of expression, one of the functions, of participatory systems.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: inherit;">Bonnitta gave me “G(En)C” as an abbreviation for generative (en)closure. I’m keeping it.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Bonnie: <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: inherit;">I think the notion o G(En)C might help us think of holons not so much as containers like nested russian dolls. In the video on embryology you see that what is inside is also outside, and what is outside is also inside, Klein-bottle or torus-like. The brain is the inside of the skin, and the skin is the outside of the brain (See video)</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Me: <span style="font-family: inherit;"><span class="UFICommentBody" style="font-family: inherit;">I have a similar notion to Bonnita, with overlapping holons that while they maintain autonomy, they are also interdependent in the shared spaces between (like my icon).<br/><br/>To perhaps add to the shorthand: EmerG(en)C? And/or aG(en)C for the singular plural?</span></span></span></p>
<p>The model of hierarchical complexity relies on the nested doll container schema metaphor. And it's taken as an ontological given when it's just one of many metaphors. Or one of many lenses, as Edwards puts it. Different metaphors, different inference structures. And no One to rule them all! I know, heresy. MGM. Let the inquisition begin!</p>
<p>John: As I was washing the dishes a bit earlier, with lots of foamy bubbles, I was reminded of the talk in this conversation about looking at the multiple rainbow bubbles of religions, from a higher vantage point. The washing - up may never be the same! I very much like the metaphors and imagery, which I didn’t understand until the article. <br/>I don’t think I will start talking about bubbles and foam at the next Interreligious gathering though. They will think I am blowing bubbles at them and frothing at the mouth! <br/>I was able to get the significance of generative (en)closures , more so than before. <br/><span style="color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #eff1f3; color: #1d2129; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br/></span></span></span>I appreciated <a dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/liquidsyntax?fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">Layman Pascal</a>’ s overview of the various levels of religion and <a dir="ltr" href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002642203712&fref=gc&dti=470435939720069&hc_location=ufi" target="_blank" rel="dialog noopener">Edward Berge</a>’ s reminder of the importance of economic and social structures. <br/><br/>Thanks to all three of you for a conversation rich in generative ideas.</p>