An Attack on Emptiness - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T07:25:52Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/an-attack-of-emptiness?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A42457&xg_raw_resources=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noLayman - cool. There's a lot…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-01-11:5301756:Comment:633452016-01-11T21:21:32.457ZDavidM58http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/DavidM58
<p>Layman - cool. There's a lot of potential there embedded in what you say. I suspect something of the same. This question of "what is the most basic energy" is a very deep one, and very interesting to me.</p>
<p>I've not yet had a chance to look at the Ted talk...</p>
<p>Layman - cool. There's a lot of potential there embedded in what you say. I suspect something of the same. This question of "what is the most basic energy" is a very deep one, and very interesting to me.</p>
<p>I've not yet had a chance to look at the Ted talk...</p> The number that says there is…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-01-11:5301756:Comment:631922016-01-11T21:10:50.491ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>The number that says there is a basic energy that operates as a "nearly" or "almost" or "barely" -- rather than not existing or existing strongly. And the number that says there is way too much of another energy for our model of the cosmos.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Aside from getting better at handling emptiness (i.e. combining a principled refusal of non-concepts w/ a visceral embrace of Mystery w/ an practical philosophy of how to handle surprising, uncertain universes) what does this suggest? …</p>
<p>The number that says there is a basic energy that operates as a "nearly" or "almost" or "barely" -- rather than not existing or existing strongly. And the number that says there is way too much of another energy for our model of the cosmos.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Aside from getting better at handling emptiness (i.e. combining a principled refusal of non-concepts w/ a visceral embrace of Mystery w/ an practical philosophy of how to handle surprising, uncertain universes) what does this suggest? Well probably that something like an "aether" not only exists prior the plank-scale of quantum particles but that it has to be retrofitted into our equations and some of them will prove to be incorrect -- most likely those which tell us the age of the universe and expansive-contractive behavior of space. </p> I place this TED talk here si…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2016-01-10:5301756:Comment:633402016-01-10T20:28:43.914ZAmbo Sunohttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/AmboSuno
<p>I place this TED talk here since at a quick peruse I don't see the title phrase 'quantum science' or the like, and do see the word "emptiness."</p>
<p>This piece is not deeply philosophical or specifically post-metaphysical, yet in talking about both relativity theory and quantum science and why is there something rather than nothing, it fits close enough. I enjoyed it.</p>
<p>It turns out as I chose this thread, and now read it for the first time, I am animated by it, the…</p>
<p>I place this TED talk here since at a quick peruse I don't see the title phrase 'quantum science' or the like, and do see the word "emptiness."</p>
<p>This piece is not deeply philosophical or specifically post-metaphysical, yet in talking about both relativity theory and quantum science and why is there something rather than nothing, it fits close enough. I enjoyed it.</p>
<p>It turns out as I chose this thread, and now read it for the first time, I am animated by it, the epistemological/ontological theorizing and particularly finding language and maybe having the wherewithall, maybe partly discipline, to change one's long-term default language patterns and tendencies. I am noticing myself as I say this.</p>
<p>I have had an affinity for how Layman gets at (along with Bruce and theurj), around, and through these questions, and though I like each sub-topic and paragraph of his intro, I especially like his eloquent ongoing emphasis of Nietzsche's "nihilism." I like how the phenomenon of nihilism slices through so many domains, a ghosting x-factor perhaps latent in all human epistemological endeavors.</p>
<p>This short TED comes at the physics of all, of "multiverses", partly via a couple of critical numerical representations, the underlying realities of which life and death seem to pivot. It draws on the swiss circular accelerator's discoveries and refinements on Higgs-Boson knowledge and extending theoretical speculation about the nature of all, including emptiness and things and *fields*.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ted.com/talks/harry_cliff_have_we_reached_the_end_of_physics#t-708680" target="_blank">http://www.ted.com/talks/harry_cliff_have_we_reached_the_end_of_phy...</a></p> That's pretty cool, Theurj. …tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:427232012-07-19T15:31:38.730ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>That's pretty cool, Theurj. An odd association, yes, but quirky enough that I like it.</p>
<p>It echoes "pendulum," too, which might be seen to imply the tai chi swing between (not-)empty and (not-)full...</p>
<p>That's pretty cool, Theurj. An odd association, yes, but quirky enough that I like it.</p>
<p>It echoes "pendulum," too, which might be seen to imply the tai chi swing between (not-)empty and (not-)full...</p> Weird association but when I…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:424572012-07-19T15:29:00.062ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>Weird association but when I hear the word <em>plenum</em> I associate by sound the word <em>frenulum</em>.* Since the latter serves to functionally allow flight by connecting the fore and aft wings on certain insects, perhaps to distinguish the bad from the good metaphysical plenum we might call it <em>plenulum</em>? This way it can take flight from bad metaphysics?</p>
<p>* <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_of_prepuce_of_penis" target="_blank">It is also</a> "…</p>
<p>Weird association but when I hear the word <em>plenum</em> I associate by sound the word <em>frenulum</em>.* Since the latter serves to functionally allow flight by connecting the fore and aft wings on certain insects, perhaps to distinguish the bad from the good metaphysical plenum we might call it <em>plenulum</em>? This way it can take flight from bad metaphysics?</p>
<p>* <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_of_prepuce_of_penis" target="_blank">It is also</a> "<a href="http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/altsex/penis.html" target="_blank">a thin strip of flesh</a> on the underside of the penis that connects the shaft to the head." You knew there had to be a sexual meaning in there if I'm using it. Aka the "banjo string." <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum" target="_blank">Also relates to</a> female genitalia.</p> I agree that "plenum" is meta…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:427222012-07-19T14:42:08.195ZBalderhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/BruceAlderman
<p>I agree that "plenum" is metaphysical -- but not <em>necessarily</em> in the sense critiqued by postmetaphysics. Here, I was thinking of something like Harman's description of reality as "jam-packed with objects," where every form, (momentary or eons-long) relationship, process, etc, is "object," and where every object also withdraws. So, this would be a different meaning of "fullness" (plenum) than a fully present super (ass)holon. Granted, I think Bryant handles the notion of…</p>
<p>I agree that "plenum" is metaphysical -- but not <em>necessarily</em> in the sense critiqued by postmetaphysics. Here, I was thinking of something like Harman's description of reality as "jam-packed with objects," where every form, (momentary or eons-long) relationship, process, etc, is "object," and where every object also withdraws. So, this would be a different meaning of "fullness" (plenum) than a fully present super (ass)holon. Granted, I think Bryant handles the notion of "withdrawal" better than Harman. A model like this also needs to handle something like "space," in my opinion. (Harman does so, for instance, by positing "space" as an emergent feature of emergent object-relations.)</p> Yeah, the terminology really…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:426372012-07-19T14:09:12.024ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>Yeah, the terminology really should come to grips with the functional balance or "edge of imbalance" between not-full & not-empty. This morning my preference is replacing Nothing with Nothing Else. That basically does the trick without overstating the case but it also gives us that sharp line from which the attack may proceed...</p>
<p>Yeah, the terminology really should come to grips with the functional balance or "edge of imbalance" between not-full & not-empty. This morning my preference is replacing Nothing with Nothing Else. That basically does the trick without overstating the case but it also gives us that sharp line from which the attack may proceed...</p> The language used for the nam…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:426362012-07-19T13:07:50.339ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>The language used for the name of this thread also reminds me of my old tai chi training. And how the latter can itself be recontextualized in light of more recent OOO rhetaphor. In tai chi one meets an attack by becoming empty at the point of attack and withdrawing. But the body is never fully empty or full. When one side is empty the other side is full (and various combinations therewith) so that while one withdraws at the point of attack one simultaneously attacks from another angle. So…</p>
<p>The language used for the name of this thread also reminds me of my old tai chi training. And how the latter can itself be recontextualized in light of more recent OOO rhetaphor. In tai chi one meets an attack by becoming empty at the point of attack and withdrawing. But the body is never fully empty or full. When one side is empty the other side is full (and various combinations therewith) so that while one withdraws at the point of attack one simultaneously attacks from another angle. So when one attacks emptiness they are met with not just nothing but counter-attack!</p> I've invested a lot of exeges…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-19:5301756:Comment:427172012-07-19T12:28:36.804ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>I've invested a lot of exegesis on postmetaphysicalizing the emptiness of emptiness doctrine, most recently in the OOO thread through the withdrawn. I agree that as is in Buddhism it still contains some metaphysical problems, hence my philosophical policing. Though <em>plenum</em> has its own metaphysical connotations, also discussed in that thread. Recall …</p>
<p>I've invested a lot of exegesis on postmetaphysicalizing the emptiness of emptiness doctrine, most recently in the OOO thread through the withdrawn. I agree that as is in Buddhism it still contains some metaphysical problems, hence my philosophical policing. Though <em>plenum</em> has its own metaphysical connotations, also discussed in that thread. Recall <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-differance?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A4692" target="_self">this post</a> on asserting a positive through double negation and the specter. And poetically <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/an-integral-postmetaphysical?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A5046" target="_self">expressed here</a> as:</p>
<p>I see a ghost on the horizon<br/> calling me to follow.<br/> When I get there<br/> loose rags on a tattered fence.<br/> I look up and he's still there on the horizon<br/> beckoning.</p>
<p>And recall the chorus from <em><a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/ladder-climber-view?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A42376" target="_self">The Three Veils</a></em> which re-un-posits via triple negation, or as you say, "emptiness is empty of emptiness."</p>
<p>That's right, that's right, nothing<br/> and not just nothing, but no nothing<br/> and not no nothing neither.</p>
<p>Though the hermetic qabalah version is also metaphsycial with the plenum from which the universe springs, akin to Kennilingam's conscioussness per se. See my differe(a)nce(s) with plen(um)itude in <a href="http://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-differance" target="_self">this thread</a>. Hier(an)archy.</p> Either plenum (even an invisi…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2012-07-18:5301756:Comment:427142012-07-18T20:10:12.957ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>Either plenum (even an invisible plenum) or else non-separateness, indiscernibility, etc. seem to be quite passable. The tendency of the "empty" epistemologies is to accrue a drag effect of ontological implications and produce an unnecessary amount of backtracking and supplementation. And this is all the nice way to say it. The harsher way is to point out the analogy to nihilism at all levels of the being. </p>
<p>At the very least, the argument made above is an extended remix of "empty…</p>
<p>Either plenum (even an invisible plenum) or else non-separateness, indiscernibility, etc. seem to be quite passable. The tendency of the "empty" epistemologies is to accrue a drag effect of ontological implications and produce an unnecessary amount of backtracking and supplementation. And this is all the nice way to say it. The harsher way is to point out the analogy to nihilism at all levels of the being. </p>
<p>At the very least, the argument made above is an extended remix of "empty of emptiness". At the most it is part of a cultural self-diagnosis attempting to re-secure and discriminate between two trends within the habits of even the highest elements of human experience.</p>