A Commentary on Sellars Distinction between Manifest Image and Scientific Image - Integral Post-Metaphysical Spirituality2024-03-29T06:36:53Zhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/forum/topics/a-commentary-on-sellars-distinction-between-manifest-image-and-1?commentId=5301756%3AComment%3A51419&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYou might appreciate this blo…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-09-04:5301756:Comment:516252013-09-04T13:50:22.207ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>You might appreciate <a href="http://larvalsubjects.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/a-remark-on-a-remark-on-a-remark-and-don-drapers-panic-attack/" target="_blank">this blog post</a>:</p>
<p>"My thesis is that conscious states give no reliable insight into their causes and that therefore we risk completely misconstruing our mental life if we take phenomenological description at <em>face value</em>. [...] This is the point behind the borromean critical theory I’ve been talking about. The knot of…</p>
<p>You might appreciate <a href="http://larvalsubjects.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/a-remark-on-a-remark-on-a-remark-and-don-drapers-panic-attack/" target="_blank">this blog post</a>:</p>
<p>"My thesis is that conscious states give no reliable insight into their causes and that therefore we risk completely misconstruing our mental life if we take phenomenological description at <em>face value</em>. [...] This is the point behind the borromean critical theory I’ve been talking about. The knot of borromean critical theory (not to be confused with <em>Lacan’s </em>knot), is meant to emphasize that the three orders simultaneously overlap and interpenetrate <em>and</em> are autonomous. It is a logic of the <em>both/and</em>, not the <em>either/or</em>. What it tries to reject is <em>any</em> of the three orders as being treated as foundational to the others. The order of the symbolic (S) is the order of signs, signifiers, language, meaning. [...] The order of the imaginary (I) is the order of phenomenological lived experience. The order of the real (R) is the order of the physical, natural, or material investigated by biology, physics, chemistry, and neurology."</p>
<p>And I'd add that the center where they all interact is the <em>withdrawn</em>.</p> I just borrowed from the libr…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-29:5301756:Comment:513902013-08-29T13:34:08.447ZEdward theurj Bergehttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/theurj
<p>I just borrowed from the library Dennett's new book, <em><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=sicVcPjfPxUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=intuition+pumps&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mk0fUu6_JInQsATp34HQBg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=intuition%20pumps&f=false" target="_blank">Intuition Pumps</a>.</em> Therein he gives a lot of thinking tools based largely on our manifest image. He addresses the manifest/scientific image dichotomy on pp. 69-73, just a brief intro. But in…</p>
<p>I just borrowed from the library Dennett's new book, <em><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=sicVcPjfPxUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=intuition+pumps&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mk0fUu6_JInQsATp34HQBg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=intuition%20pumps&f=false" target="_blank">Intuition Pumps</a>.</em> Therein he gives a lot of thinking tools based largely on our manifest image. He addresses the manifest/scientific image dichotomy on pp. 69-73, just a brief intro. But in practical matters of everyday living, his tools are mostly <em>manifest</em> but based in science. There's also a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_mY54hjM0" target="_blank">YouTube video</a> on the topic.</p> I get the sense that Sellars…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-28:5301756:Comment:514192013-08-28T21:58:17.548Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>I get the sense that Sellars and Brassier may not really be all that interested in actually retaining the manifest image, it sounds like lip service, and I'm not sure if Sellars suggestion (and that's all it really is at bottom) actually works.</p>
<p>I find it all interesting though, more interesting than neo-positivistic pragmatism...</p>
<p><a href="http://philosophy.livejournal.com/2015784.html" target="_blank">Something else</a> on Brassier and Sellars that suggests otherwise to some…</p>
<p>I get the sense that Sellars and Brassier may not really be all that interested in actually retaining the manifest image, it sounds like lip service, and I'm not sure if Sellars suggestion (and that's all it really is at bottom) actually works.</p>
<p>I find it all interesting though, more interesting than neo-positivistic pragmatism...</p>
<p><a href="http://philosophy.livejournal.com/2015784.html" target="_blank">Something else</a> on Brassier and Sellars that suggests otherwise to some extent. Sellars coined the term 'myth of the given.' Note the reference to 'privileged access.'</p>
<p></p> Again it seems like the tripa…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-27:5301756:Comment:514132013-08-27T19:20:48.125ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>Again it seems like the tripartite (or 3.5 if we want to get technical) gross-subtle-causal structure of Reality comes into play.</p>
<p>The pinkness of an ice cube is a qualitative enactment which can, in some sense, be distinguished from the structural descriptions of the material components. Pinkness is situated at a blending of the gross and subtle realms.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the scientific description -- if it is reduced as far as we can go -- results in an insubstantial…</p>
<p>Again it seems like the tripartite (or 3.5 if we want to get technical) gross-subtle-causal structure of Reality comes into play.</p>
<p>The pinkness of an ice cube is a qualitative enactment which can, in some sense, be distinguished from the structural descriptions of the material components. Pinkness is situated at a blending of the gross and subtle realms.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the scientific description -- if it is reduced as far as we can go -- results in an insubstantial mechanical ensemble of empty pattern components whose roots are infinitesimal and ineffable as they are physical. The quanta, for example, are one way of discussing a situation where the gross and causal domains are blended.</p>
<p>The "second tier vision" or "integral worldspace" must be understood very broadly as consisting of the work of people who are constantly rediscovering, requiring or implying the basic summary structures which ought to be collected under the general heading of "integral theory". It is no simple matter to map the work of complex thinkers relative to each other, but the more modest task of rooting out the general integral components which show up in the work of people who are pressing forward in post-post-modern philosophy (broadly inclusive, non-reductive, nuanced, post-metaphysical & post-relativistic thinking) is available to us.</p>
<p>Of course it would be NICE if they discussed their meditative and embodied contemplative practices a little more. Still, we understand their politics and forgive them...</p> It is nice to hear from peopl…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-27:5301756:Comment:514092013-08-27T18:10:28.079ZLayman Pascalhttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/LaymanPascal
<p>It is nice to hear from people who place these two worlds side by side -- a realm of populated worlds & a realm of networked fact-schemes. A world & a matrix. The former cannot explain the latter... but the latter feeds back into the former as it reveals previously unknown elements and functions. A great muddle and medley ensues. The revelation-revolution of thinking announced by Nietzsche goes on in Sellars.</p>
<p>In order to hold both "sides" together we need a larger, holistic…</p>
<p>It is nice to hear from people who place these two worlds side by side -- a realm of populated worlds & a realm of networked fact-schemes. A world & a matrix. The former cannot explain the latter... but the latter feeds back into the former as it reveals previously unknown elements and functions. A great muddle and medley ensues. The revelation-revolution of thinking announced by Nietzsche goes on in Sellars.</p>
<p>In order to hold both "sides" together we need a larger, holistic spaciousness within ourselves. We need or are producing the integrative worldspace. Ultimately that space must agree that it is enactive, inclusive, complementary & post-metaphysical. There are many ways to do this but they all involve a de-emphasizing of the simplistic reality of either the MI or the SI.</p>
<p>This is why I refer to this movements as the Metaphysics of Adjacency. It involves simultaneously placing our alternatives "next to" each other... and becoming suspicious about all claims about which objects are "really real". Proximity or adjacency describes the condition of relational co-activity and the Ishness which characterizes our descriptions of reality following our skepticism about reductive identities.</p>
<p>The question "What is Philosophy?" is easily and colloquially quarantined in discussions about how we have discussions about reality. It is perhaps more general to apply a yogic filter and say that philosophy is a self-developmental practice which reveals and suggests movements of consciousness that lead toward depth of being. Philosophy is distinction-work in the sense that prostitution is sex-work. To combine the alternatives and separate what appears to be singular. Ultimately the presentation of conclusions about reality is a secondary philosophical function to the contagious utility of performing distinction work and growing into the community of those who have done so.</p> Sellars, and probably followi…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-25:5301756:Comment:511832013-08-25T21:57:03.103Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Sellars, and probably following him, Brassier, understands the <em>philosophia perennis</em> and its 'great chain of being' as a middle period version of what he calls the "manifest image" approach. He also understands phenomenology (and probably Heidegger), as well as the "ordinary language" philosophy at Oxford (Ryle, Austin, Strawson) and the "linguistic analysis" of the later Wittgenstein at Cambridge, as later incarnations of the "manifest image" approach.</p>
<p>Sellars, and probably following him, Brassier, understands the <em>philosophia perennis</em> and its 'great chain of being' as a middle period version of what he calls the "manifest image" approach. He also understands phenomenology (and probably Heidegger), as well as the "ordinary language" philosophy at Oxford (Ryle, Austin, Strawson) and the "linguistic analysis" of the later Wittgenstein at Cambridge, as later incarnations of the "manifest image" approach.</p> Not entirely sure sure where…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-25:5301756:Comment:511822013-08-25T21:50:40.836Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>Not entirely sure sure where this will go, but I've always understood "extension" as referring to the "referent" and "intension" as loosely being analogous to what is sometimes called the "signified."</p>
<p><a href="http://robertjackson.info/index/2013/04/the-fourfold-of-speculative-realism-a-work-in-progress/" target="_blank">This entry</a> attempts to situate (by the use of a four-square), on the one hand, two "OOO" philosophers, and on the other, a Speculative Realist and a Speculative…</p>
<p>Not entirely sure sure where this will go, but I've always understood "extension" as referring to the "referent" and "intension" as loosely being analogous to what is sometimes called the "signified."</p>
<p><a href="http://robertjackson.info/index/2013/04/the-fourfold-of-speculative-realism-a-work-in-progress/" target="_blank">This entry</a> attempts to situate (by the use of a four-square), on the one hand, two "OOO" philosophers, and on the other, a Speculative Realist and a Speculative Materialist.</p> On another note, here's an in…tag:integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com,2013-08-25:5301756:Comment:511772013-08-25T09:26:15.299Zkelamunihttp://integralpostmetaphysics.ning.com/profile/kelamuni
<p>On another note, <a href="http://www.kronos.org.pl/index.php?23151,896" target="_blank">here's an interview with Brassier</a> in which he clearly presents his case for nihilism, and like Sellars, brings up the spectre of the great chain of being and <em>philsophia perennis</em>.</p>
<p>On another note, <a href="http://www.kronos.org.pl/index.php?23151,896" target="_blank">here's an interview with Brassier</a> in which he clearly presents his case for nihilism, and like Sellars, brings up the spectre of the great chain of being and <em>philsophia perennis</em>.</p>